remington gold saber vs federal hst

[dakota port]

i have two rounds i can use in my carry gun. i have federal hst 180 gr 40 s&w and Remington golden saber 180 gr 40 s&w

which one would be best ot carry and how well does Remington gold saber perform compared to federal hst?

here are my options all 180 gr

 

[dial1911]

First thing we're going to need here is a couple volunteers from the crowd...

I wouldn't stand in front of either one personally. I realize that't not much help, but they're probably pretty close to equal rounds.

 

[Aimless]

Ga Arms 155gr +P+. A 155gr BJHP round that uses Speer's excellent gold dot bullet combined with a powder load that pushes that 155gr BJHP to 1300FPS.

http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson155grgolddothollowpointp50pk-1.aspx

There has been lots of gashing of teeth, back and forth and banter over this round. If you search the internet about it you will read how it is unsafe, and stories that it is nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell 155gr bullets among others. This round has been made since the early 2000s, if not longer and I personally have fired thousands of rounds of it with no problems ever. I currently use it in my carry gun without any reservations. The round has been chronoed all over the place and the 1300FPS average seems to hold true. Last year a e-mail response from Ga arms about the +P+ .40 was posted and in it a lot of the noise pollution about the round was laid to rest. I am posting it here since it's recommendation will probably get some comments from the peanut gallery.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for asking the question, so many folks just want to trashour concept without giving us a chance to explain our reasoning.

We have done an extensive amount of testing on the Speer GoldDot bullets both for pressure and velocity (P&V) and projectile expansionin various media. The velocities we have listed for each bullet weight are,what we believe, to be the best compromise between velocity, pressure,expansion and controllability of subsequent shots fired from the firearm. Where we have marketed a load at a pressure slightly above standard and called it a+P, it was because; to lower the pressure resulted in a reduction in velocity that significantly reduced bullet upset in a particular media. The +P+ load that we offer shows a significant increase in energy and bullet upset over the +P version and we added it at the insistence of some of our law enforcement customers who had tested this load for their departments.

Our velocities are measured from a service firearm, not a P&V barrel which could explain the velocity difference noted between ours and Speer's loads. Speer's data is from a test fixture which, generally speaking, tend to give a slightly higher velocity than a service gun. We are well aware that SAAMI does not list a +p or +p+ load for 40 S&W, and for those folks that are cautious about shooting anything warmer than standard loads, I understand that and would not argue that they should try them. You always want to be comfortable with the load in your weapon. I will say that we have tested these loads extensively in house and have sold millions of them, and have seen no reason to believe that these loads are not safe in any well-made firearm that is chambered for 40 S&W.

Our intent in labeling the loads as we did was not to mislead our customers as many seem to think, but to be perfectly honest in letting them know that these loads produce slightly more pressure than SAAMI specs, which is 35,000 PSI maximum average, for the 40 S&W. You may have individual rounds exceed this pressure, in testing as long as the average of all rounds fired stays at 35,000 PSI or below.

Our 155 grain load averages 36,500 PSI, which as you point out, is not very much hotter than standard. The question is; should we produce the load at this level, which we know to exceed the SAAMI spec, and not let the customer know they are shooting something above 35,000 PSI? Or should we let them know? We used the guidelines set by SAAMI for the 9mm cartridge as it also operates at 35,000 PSI. Now before you draw the obvious conclusion that the 40 S&W is a different cartridge than the 9mm and the data will not compare, let me assure you that all we used was the percentage gap from standard to the upper limit of +p which is 10%. In 9mm, anything that averages 35,000 and under, is standard pressure, 35,001 to 38,500, is +p, anything over 38,500 is +p+. That is the system we use to label our values as either +p or +P+.

Our +P+ load at 1300 FPS, as you point out, is not much over +p, but it averages 39,000 PSI, so, in my mind, to be absolutely honest, you have to call it a +P+ as it is well above the beginning of the +p pressures and, in fact, our own +p load. Perhaps the issue is a misconception that to be in the +P range, a load must be significantly higher in pressure than standard, when in fact, if a particular lot of ammo averages ONE PSI over the maximum limit, it should be labeled +P, according to SAAMI standards for the 9mm.

In any case, I hope this helps you to understand why we have chosen to label our 40 S&W loads as we have and why our numbers on velocity might not line up exactly with Speer. Please let me know if you have any further questions, I will be glad to answer.

I know from past experience that many folks will continue to call us names for selling a product that does not conform to SAMMI specs. I would remind them of two things; 1) SAAMI compliance is voluntary not mandatory, 2) if everyone always stayed inside their guidelines, we would have missed out on some pretty darn good cartridges, in fact, two of my favorites come to mind, the 25-06 and the 44 Magnum. While I would agree that it is not safe for the average reloader to take matters into their own hands as they do not have access to pressure test equipment and the resources to test thousands of rounds, I would think that as we have access to both, it would be acceptable for us to load what we feel is a safe load, especially as we have been making our living as an ammunition manufacturer for over 30 years now. We mostly know, by now, what works and what does not.

Thank you for your support and please let me know if there is anything further I can do for you.

Curtis Shipley
Georgia Arms

 

[Swamp Fox]

What do you think the result would be if you were shot with either?

 

[sovietak474u]

Hands down the federal hst. It's the only round I'll carry.

 

[Aimless]

As I recall HST's are not bonded. While that isn't a deal breaker it should be something to consider if you are around vehicles all day.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

Hands down the federal hst. It's the only round I'll carry.

Gotta love that near 100% weight retention.

 

[sparked1]

Lookup TNOutdoors on youtube and watch his ammo tests. I can't vouch for the methods he uses but they seem legit. He tested the golden sabers and they suck ass. Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot and now Hornady FPD is all I carry, personally. None of which can be found at Walmart (cough, cough).

 

[new57]

As I recall HST's are not bonded. While that isn't a deal breaker it should be something to consider if you are around vehicles all day.

Correct. HSTs are not bonded. However Federal offers their Tactical Bonded, in 135gr for 9mm, that is bonded and retains weight if that is a factor for you. HST and Bonded by Federal perform nicely.