Now this is strange!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't see your two post I was just listening to a medley and posted them...Now I see you had just posted before me, what are the chances of that happening?
When I did hunt I always went the night before to determine where they were roosting. Then go in the next morning at dark and sit until daybreak...And do a fly down call
I went to my local watering hole and ordered a bottle of Sagamore Double oak, Never had it but wanted to try it based on suggestions on here..Time will tell