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1911 diminishing returns

MaconGuns

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Can someone school me on 1911s and cost effectiveness?

There has to be a point where more is less. I can grasp where a $900 is probably better than a $400 but it starts to get fuzzy when comparing a $1500 pistol to a $3500 one.

I'm taking about brand new 1911s not older collection pieces.

At what point can you say, this is a nice pistol but I can get just as good for less.

Yeah it's played with by hand. sure it's got a one of a kind laser marking of 234 of 1000 made. But let's skip that and go to quality of construction, accuracy and reliability. What would you say the cut off if when throwing more money at it ceases to pay off? TY
 
My comments aren't specific to 1911s, but generally to the upper edge of any marketplace for consumer goods.

There are three things that tend to be drivers of price in very high end consumer items:

1) The cost of achieving high quality via expensive parts, processes and overall craftsmanship.

2) A very limited market, due to the high price, requires a large profit per unit sold. If you're a vendor who is going to invest a lot of money, time, and energy to make a product not many people can afford to buy, you have to make a large profit on each one sold.

3) Hype. Mystique. The Unicorn Effect. Whatever you want to call it. Brands that occupy the high end of a market tend to automatically gain an aura of "greatness," deserved or not, simply because they are catering to a section of the market that is inaccessible to most consumers. It's part of the marketing that allows companies to sell these products at a high enough margin to be worth their time.

If you want a well made, reliable 1911, there are dozens of brands and models to choose from, and most won't crack the $1000 barrier. If you are buying a collectors or conversation piece for the "art" of it, that's a different kind of purpose.
 
Same as buying a Honda compared to a BMW compared to a Ferrari. They all do the same thing but wouldn't you agree a BMW is better than a Honda, and Ferrari tops BMW? A smart phone over a flip phone?

Quality is a big part but most of it is bells and whistles. On a $900 1911, you are not going to get a hand finish polish blue, recessed slide stop, or cut and recessed barrel crown. You are not gonna get a guarantee its gonna hit 1" grouping at 25 yards for $900, you'll get a maybe it could. But whether, it hits that accuracy at that distance is still entirely on you.

Where you decide to cut off quality and the extra stuff its solely on you. With all that being said, I currently have a Wilson Combat Classic, Colt 70 Series NM, Springfield Mil-Spec and have owned Nighthawk, Sig, Kimber, and a bunch more. Its the little things you never notice until you step up is when you notice them. For example, pick any production, out of the box 1911, shake it side to side. I can almost guarantee the majority (not all!) of them will make a small jingling noise as if it has some play. This bothered me. With a higher end, it is hand fitted and so tight that it will not make any noise. So tight, that it is picky on ammo. So with certain, ammo it will not feed. Just as BMW or Ferrari will require more maintenance and will only take premium fuel.

Now, my oldest 1911 is my Springfield Mil-Spec. I Have kept it thru all these year because its accuracy rivals the Wilson and take any ammo without problem but not all that pretty. Best work horse. So yes its possible to get accuracy that rivals Wilson for much less but it will not be guarantee. I gotten a Loaded and another Mil- Spec and they suck. Sold them off immediately. With Sig, is a for sure never again. Had 2 from them and have stovepipe issues.

When you got into the quality of Baer, Wilson, Christenssen etc. The quality is there, no doubt. Next what cost more is how much "upgrades" you want.
Baer is a great quality weapon but not too much option of their list of upgrades so thats why they are a little cheaper then other higher ends.
Wilson is great quality and with them, is a pay as you go if going custom or if you choosing to buy outright, the more you pay the more you get.
Nighthawk, pretty much made all the little bells and whistle standard on all their pistols. Not much you can do. it is hand built top notch quality.
There is more higher end 1911s out there but the are the usual well known ones.

Bottom line is yes there is a difference between quality for the price. But still solely on what you want. If you want a nice conversation piece that wows people, a nice $3500 1911 will do the trick, whether its a high end 1911(Ferarri) or a old collector Colt (1969 Camaro). If you want a good carry work horse (Honda), don't see why a Springfield or Kimber will not suffice. If you want a bad ass competition accurate 1911, you can shoot productions 1911s until you find an accurate one (R/T Charger), build one (Base Charger With Your Add-On Supercharger), or a guaranteed one right out of the custom shop (SRT Hellcat). All on what you want.

Oh and yes, my Springfield Mil-Spec is made out of cheap quality Brazilian steel but thats why its a $600 gun lol. But i love it.
 
And here, just to show. I can you tell it gets a ton more compliments then my Springfield or Colt lol.
 

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I've had a few milsurps, Norincos, Giles worked Colt bullseye pistol, still have a Dan Wesson Valor and a Les Baer. I really like the Valor and the Baer with a nod to the Baer as higher quality. They were about the same price at the LGS. Both are capable of shooting better than I am so I stopped at the $1,500 mark in buying.
 
Best I can tell, most the high end 1911s are safe queens so I've never understood the point of them. I want an Ed Brown Kobra Carry and may own one some day but if I do it will be to carry. The cheapest 1911s seem really accurate right out of the box due to the design and trigger. Not sure if tripling the price adds to the accuracy (for the average shooter, in a meaningful way) or the reliability. I don't carry one because I have more rounds in my 30S and no concerns about reliability. To the point earlier about Ferrari is better than BMW is better than Honda. More expensive, yes. Less reliable, likely. Better, I would not agree. I have an Accord with over 200,000 miles on it and no major repairs or issues and total reliability. I would not expect that from a BMW or Ferrari. To me, they are the automobile equivalent of BBQ guns...
 
I've had a few milsurps, Norincos, Giles worked Colt bullseye pistol, still have a Dan Wesson Valor and a Les Baer. I really like the Valor and the Baer with a nod to the Baer as higher quality. They were about the same price at the LGS. Both are capable of shooting better than I am so I stopped at the $1,500 mark in buying.

I believe for $1500 you can get everything you could ever really want or need out of a 1911. For me, I could have both for less than $1000.

Everyone is different and opinions are like buttholes, but when I see these guns for $3500 and nothing extraordinary about them (extremely rare, interesting provenance of previous ownership, etc), I just can't see it...Not if we're simply talking about a shooter's gun.

And here, just to show. I can you tell it gets a ton more compliments then my Springfield or Colt lol.

Besides the "Wilson Combat" stamped on the slide, I honestly don't see that much difference in the looks of this and a Colt that costs much less. It may be a better gun, but we're talking looks here. It looks nice, but a lot of Colts, Springfields, etc look just as nice to me. JMO.
 
Shooting-wise I don't think the extra money gets much at all.

The 1911 is an inherently accurate gun, and unless you are a Master-class shooter you simply won't be able to outshoot a $700 Ruger or Springfield, let alone take advantage of the tighter machining in a high-end gun.

Fit and finish on the higher end guns is usually better, but again, the Ruger made on modern CNC machines is better fit than most $1500+ guns were just a few years back. The features that the high-dollar models used to give you are also present these days in the more economical guns.

In reality most of it comes down to branding, just like it does with cars. You spend the money on a Kimber or a Dan Wesson or a Cabot because that's the name you want on the side of the gun. From the practical point of putting holes in things from a distance, there's not a lot of difference between them, just like a Honda and and Audi will both get you to work on time.
 
I believe for $1500 you can get everything you could ever really want or need out of a 1911. For me, I could have both for less than $1000.

Everyone is different and opinions are like buttholes, but when I see these guns for $3500 and nothing extraordinary about them (extremely rare, interesting provenance of previous ownership, etc), I just can't see it...Not if we're simply talking about a shooter's gun.



Besides the "Wilson Combat" stamped on the slide, I honestly don't see that much difference in the looks of this and a Colt that costs much less. It may be a better gun, but we're talking looks here. It looks nice, but a lot of Colts, Springfields, etc look just as nice to me. JMO.

I agree. I have had WCs (not hating on them, just my experience) that couldn't group no matter what ammo or loads I tried. Norinco shot much tighter groups. The DW Valor has about the best factory trigger I've felt other than Hi-Standard target pistols. I like the Les Baer TRS because it's tightly fitted, well made and all parts numbered to the gun. I paid $1,600 + about $235 for a new FCG for the Colt Giles BE pistol, that's the most I've paid for a centerfire pistol, ever. The Les Baer was about $1,525 + tax (If memory serves) and the Valor about the same. To be fair though, I'm trying to keep 10 of 10 shots in a string inside a 3.25" circle (10 ring on an NRA B8) at 25 yards, offhand.
 
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