Since I know the most about guns in the family, this was randomly dropped on my lap to figure out what it is and if anyone might be interested in buying it. The only markings that haven't worn off were the numbers "71" on the body and barrel, but I narrowed it down by known age in the family and general look to being some sort of Colt SAA. This was confirmed by a restoration expert, who added that it was a first generation, although he claimed to have no knowledge of any having less than a 3-digit serial number. After looking at further details and talking with Colt, the gun was determined to indeed be a 1st gen SAA, but more specifically a pinch frame actually serial numbered 71... I have sent pictures to Colt for better discussion of confirmation and then to request any historical records for it being such a low serial number. In the meantime, I'm open to any ideas from the forum as to contradictory opinions, should it be or not be restored, guesses as to value pre and post restoration, any interest in it?
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1st Gen Pinch Frame Colt SAA Serial #71
- Thread starter Gweedo
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Hi Gweedo. I hope you don't mind but I shared this in the Colt Forum where I am a member. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on that site that may be able to help you with info on this gun.
Most likely .44, and it probably wasn't cut. I heard back from Colt's archives department, so I'll explain more after going through the first quick round of questions.
Although I didn't specifically ask about it because I contacted Colt before posting, I did ask for a detailed list of their findings. They actually didn't say anything about the hole for the lanyard ring.
That's awesome. Thanks. I do have an update from Colt's archive department that I'll detail better below for you to forward them as well. Their response explains a lot, but still made me question a few things...
Colt's archive department is apparently like the FBI when it comes to any sort of counterfeit. They not only catalog their originals, but all details that they can of other notable replicas. According to Colt's archives, this is an early 1870's replica that was made in Mexico. Since many differences can be explained away as polished off, worn away, or replaced (potentially answering the lack of comment on the lanyard), there was only ONE definitive way that they were able to offer me to have determined this. The style of the serial number stamp is slightly different than the stamps Colt used for theirs. It was therefore determined to be one of the earliest and closest replicas. The last catch: Without sending it in to them, there is still the chance that it could be among the originals that were cut down and rebuilt either in Mexico or with parts from. The serial numbers can then still be explained as potential past restoration. This might suggest that the restoration people that first looked at it could have still been right.
Now I'm back to what should I know to part with it? I've started looking up these particular replicas, but I'm finding a bit of mixed information. A factory restored original with a 2-digit serial could have listed at auction for a couple hundred thousand, maybe tens of thousands unrestored. Although these replicas are old enough and good enough to have passed as originals before, I'm not like that. I'd like to know a more realistic expectation. Although it is a replica, there's still the chance it could be a modified original. Either way, I've still seen people actively looking for the replicas. The age has the added bonus of predating the need for an FFL. The replicas were similarly sequentially numbered, and this is still in the first 100 range. When I first posted this, even having stated that Colt had yet to verify it as theirs, I was PMed a 4-digit offer. This would lead me to believe that even such a replica would be at least worth that much to take the risk on it, and potentially in the 10's of thousands restored. These questions go back to all of you more experienced though. Thanks for all the help so far.
Also want to add that, despite the age, the only real mechanical issue seems to be with the cylinder timing (I think that's what it's called). Hammer locks, cylinder cycles, and trigger functions all properly. Push rod's even still intact. The chambers just don't seem to properly align with the barrel anymore. Fairly sure this might not be the worst restoration project.
As you have learned, that is not a Colt SAA. It is a copy of a Colt, made in Mexico. They were quite common in the 1800s, and there are several key features that point to this fact. As such, it's worth very little. Even if in excellent condition, they only sell for a few hundred dollars. Basically they are fakes, similar to a lot of clone guns that came out of Pakistan the past 30 years. If you go to the Colt collector's forum, you'll learn more. I see you are trying to sell this Mexican clone as a "1873 Single Action Pinch Frame #71" for $10,000 on gunbroker. Someone would be very mistaken to believe that is what it is, or to pay a fraction of that amount. A genuine first generation in that condition (very poor, with 0% original finish) has a value of about $900-1500. A copy is below that, and a refinished one (costing the person doing it about $1000) worth about the same.
Above you say "Although these replicas are old enough and good enough to have passed as originals before, I'm not like that." And yet, now that you're selling it, you're EXACTLY like that. You imply it's real, and say you never contacted Colt about it. But you did and they told you it was a Mexican fake. You say you sent it to Turnbull, who knows better than to tell you it was an original, then imply he polished it to "look for more numbers." But you didn't say you took the wire wheel to it. Everything in your ad for "Colt serial number 71" is contradicting what you wrote here. Buyer Beware. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/648655078
"This revolver has been in the family for a known four generations, but anyone that remembered any useful details about it has now passed. After being rediscovered among some old possessions, pictures were taken and sent to Turnbull Restoration for identification and recommendations. Their reply was that it is a first edition pinch frame Colt SAA. At the time, only two serial numbers "71" could be read, so the decision was made to have a partial restoration done just to carefully polish everything enough to see any other markings and make her a bit prettier for sale. All serial numbers, inspector/proof stamps, etc. that could be found were photo documented before reassembly and are all shown in this listing. Although I would recommend not even attempting to fire this in it's current condition, all of the 100% original parts and mechanics of the firearm still function. Since I would like to sell, I was not interested in spending hundreds more on having the archives looked at by Colt, just to be able to inflate the cost more. Therefore, I'm simply listing it in fairness as an 1873 SAA, NOT definitively as a historically significant Colt."
"This revolver has been in the family for a known four generations, but anyone that remembered any useful details about it has now passed. After being rediscovered among some old possessions, pictures were taken and sent to Turnbull Restoration for identification and recommendations. Their reply was that it is a first edition pinch frame Colt SAA. At the time, only two serial numbers "71" could be read, so the decision was made to have a partial restoration done just to carefully polish everything enough to see any other markings and make her a bit prettier for sale. All serial numbers, inspector/proof stamps, etc. that could be found were photo documented before reassembly and are all shown in this listing. Although I would recommend not even attempting to fire this in it's current condition, all of the 100% original parts and mechanics of the firearm still function. Since I would like to sell, I was not interested in spending hundreds more on having the archives looked at by Colt, just to be able to inflate the cost more. Therefore, I'm simply listing it in fairness as an 1873 SAA, NOT definitively as a historically significant Colt."
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