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.22 or .25 - Please advise

I saw an impressive display of what a NAA guardian in 22 mag does as a gut gun today while at the range. In a QCB situation when placed directly against a simulated aggressor and the trigger is pulled It makes quite a hole.
 
Hmmm, ok let me ask everyone bashing the 22 this... Why do we use a 22 caliber as our militarys main rifle? Because it works. (yeah there's a 3 at the end with higher velocity and more weight) but once you boil it down the 22 is highly effective. Conventional calibers tend to travel in a straight path upon entering using a hollowpoint to transfer the energy and cause a larger wound canal, equalling bloodloss or death. NATO has forced us to use ball ammo in a highly inefficient caliber in terms of wound canal. Granted, lots of energy, but a tiny hole... So why would we continue to use s 22 caliber (223) as a main combat rifle? It's because of the terminal ballistics. 223 doesnt act the same way in a body. 22 calibers traveling at high speeds are extremely susceptible to yaw and tumbling upon Entry. Combine that with fragmenting and your tearing up the human body with shrapnel. That said, I'd go for a copper jacketed 22 high velocity. You're going to **** someone's **** up with 10 rounds of 22 acting like shrapnel in the human body. Even if it's not immediately a fatal shot, organ damaged caused by the tumbling and yawing of a 22 is more than enough to take someone out.. You put 1000 fps at something small it's gonna wanna keep going on impact. He'll, shoot a can full of water and watch it explode from a 22 hp, what do you think it does in a body?
 
Hmmm, ok let me ask everyone bashing the 22 this... Why do we use a 22 caliber as our militarys main rifle? Because it works. (yeah there's a 3 at the end with higher velocity and more weight) but once you boil it down the 22 is highly effective. Conventional calibers tend to travel in a straight path upon entering using a hollowpoint to transfer the energy and cause a larger wound canal, equalling bloodloss or death. NATO has forced us to use ball ammo in a highly inefficient caliber in terms of wound canal. Granted, lots of energy, but a tiny hole... So why would we continue to use s 22 caliber (223) as a main combat rifle? It's because of the terminal ballistics. 223 doesnt act the same way in a body. 22 calibers traveling at high speeds are extremely susceptible to yaw and tumbling upon Entry. Combine that with fragmenting and your tearing up the human body with shrapnel. That said, I'd go for a copper jacketed 22 high velocity. You're going to **** someone's **** up with 10 rounds of 22 acting like shrapnel in the human body. Even if it's not immediately a fatal shot, organ damaged caused by the tumbling and yawing of a 22 is more than enough to take someone out.. You put 1000 fps at something small it's gonna wanna keep going on impact. He'll, shoot a can full of water and watch it explode from a 22 hp, what do you think it does in a body?



I have taken a .22 high velocity hp to the thigh at a range of about 18 inches. It was very hot, but not painful in the least. I was able to walk around after being shot, and would have still had 100 percent of my fight in me. It wasn't until around the 30 minute mark before it started hurting, and even then, my leg just stiffened up. The bullet struck bone, and slid down to just over my knee cap. I wasn't in any real pain until the day after, and even then it was minimal.


Not really a fan of the 22 or the 25 for defensive purposes. If you are stuck on using one, I would recommend the 22, and would also recommend head shots, or at least dump the mag into the chest. I'll stick with bigger bullets myself.
 
.22....as explained to me by an emt who has worked on some victims shot by .22lr...one patient was shot in the mid-thigh...the bullet went in,hit bone,ended up bouncing around inside his gut and did so much damage he bled out before they could get him to surgery...
 
.22....as explained to me by an emt who has worked on some victims shot by .22lr...one patient was shot in the mid-thigh...the bullet went in,hit bone,ended up bouncing around inside his gut and did so much damage he bled out before they could get him to surgery...


I have a hard time believing stories like this. When the bullet struck bone in my thigh, it lost all of its energy, and traveled only a couple more inches down the bone. It did not strike with enough force to fracture the bone, and certainly did not have the energy to "bounce around"
 
I have a hard time believing stories like this. When the bullet struck bone in my thigh, it lost all of its energy, and traveled only a couple more inches down the bone. It did not strike with enough force to fracture the bone, and certainly did not have the energy to "bounce around"

apparently your shot came in at a down angle....you were still lucky it didn't hit artery or you might not be typing now....this person was apparently either lying down when shot or the person shooting was lying down and when it hit the femur it didn't break the bone it simply shattered and deflected up and bounced around the abdominal cavity making numerous holes in important stuff...the basic point is,if you place your shots well you are going to end someone's life....if you do NOT place your shots well you'd best be firing a huge projectile so you can transfer a lot of force to what you do hit...(by huge i mean 12ga slug type huge)...
 
Personally, I'd go with the .22 - the reliability issues of bygone days can be addressed through using quality ammunition - CCI or equal. With the .22 you get more energy plus cheap practice ammo.

I've also got a NAA Guardian .32 that is smaller than my Beretta 21a, so you can get a bit more power in the same size package.

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