45LC vs 44 Magnum (Subsonic questions)

[Laxguy59]

So I think I want to do a single shot for this suppressor host, but my main goal is a 44-45 caliber 300gr projectile at subsonic speeds, maybe heavier, but It will have to be jacketed.

So doing some reading the 44 magnum runs me into trouble for good choices. So many rifles are only the 1:38 twist which will not give me reliable enough stabilization with the longer(heavier) bullets for me to feel safe running them through my suppressor.

The only faster twist affordable options I have found for the 44 magnum would be a Rossi lever action(1:30 twist $430) or the Ruger 77/44(1: 20 twist $650ish)
-I love the ultra fast twist of the Ruger, but the magazine makes it very hard to fit longer bullets, and the 44 special with a 300gr at 1000fps actually makes more muzzle pressure than the subsonic 44 magnum, but it is an option. Thread job should run just about $100 since I wont have the front site put back on.
- The Rossi would be very cool, the rate of twist is satisfactory, it's affordable, 10+1 is cool, but it will require a more difficult threading job which will require me to cut the magazine tube, move the front site, and relocate the barrel band(not impossible, just more added costs) (Anyone know a good mount for a normal, not scout scope for this)

But then I noticed that a 45 colt lever action or single shot could fill my needs.
Rossi lever action(1:30 twist $430)- like the other lever action it would be a more costly threading job, and optics could be difficult.

Anyone know of a decent single shot 45colt out there? I don't think I want a combo 45/410 since the barrels seem to slug fairly large and are known for not being all that accurate, but maybe I'm wrong?

So that being said do I disadvantage myself at all by going to the 45 colt rather than the 44 magnum?
Because of the judge's popularity I assume finding factory sub 45LC will be easier than finding 44SPL. ?
In terms of reloading, can the 45colt can still take a pretty quick burning powder to get the 300gr up to 1000fps max?
Does anyone know the muzzle(not chamber) pressure I could expect from a 16" 45 colt 300gr subsonic, lets say using unique powder?

I know this post could also probably just be firearm chat, but I've kind of bought you guys along in my search for a quiet thumper.
Anyway opinions on any of my ramblings here are appreciated.

Anyone here play with 45LC in a rifle?

 

[SpeedyR]

I've got a Uberti replica Model 73 lever action in 45 colt. hadn't thought to run anything subsonic in there (supressed). I guess it's so heavy and long that adding more weight to the end of the barrel doesn't appeal to me. lol (and no, I don't want to sell my 96/44).

I know that the 77/44 is one of the more sought after actions for the subsonic 44 mag crowd, as Ruger had discontinued them a few years ago and the prices went way up, but I think they are back in production now you just don't see them sitting on shelves any more.

there are two or three custom shops that are building integrally suppressed 77/44's, so I'm surprised at the question on the magazines for the Ruger. I have bought some 300gr molds to start casting for the 44, but haven't gotten around to putting everything together and actually casting anything yet (too many other projects and a new job). I also got a 247gr cast mold for a 300BO (that I don't even have a gun to shoot in yet). It's one of those things I just havne't gotten around to yet. I know I also bought some 300gr XTP's and I think I have already shot those in the Ruger but I'll have to double check, I don't remember having any issues with OAL on the Ruger.
found this on another forum:

I have a Ruger 77/44 that was suppressed by John's Guns usung the new K style baffles and am very happy. My initial problem was getting the heavy 300 gr bullets to stabilize in the factory barrel. I dropped down to the Sierra 250 gr silhouette bullets and with 9.0 gr of Trail Boss, groups are under 1" at 100 yds. Velocities are in the 1000 fps range with less than 15 fps deviation and Trail Boss burns relatively clean. This has become my favorite gun and always gets a lot of attention at the range when I shoot a 44 mag that sounds like an airgun. Good shooting!!!

Here is a link to another forum where they discuss the mag/special on the 77/44 and the OAL issue as well. It sounds like if you keep the OAL to 1.610 and less you are good to go with the rotary magazine. I've never had any issues with mine when it comes to handloads..

http://rugerforum.net/ruger-bolt-action/64720-two-questions-about-new-77-44-a.html

hope it helps..

 

[mirage243]

Buy a Taurus Circuit Judge in 45 LC, make a short handy rifle even with a suppressor. I love 45 LC, but I hot rod all of mine with H110 instead of slow em down.

 

[Springfield 1911]

I have some loads for the old 44mag that are real *****cats in my old henry. They are generally around the 800-900 fps range and I also have some that are even lowerthan that. I mainly try for accuracy. The one perk of handloading is you can make whatever you like. I just like the 44 due to the ability to use the 44spl case as well. Makes it eaiser to find brass when you have two options.

 

[jwhited]

If you want subsonic 44 Mag, why not just use 44 Spl? And if you're handloading, you can get a good heavy bullet (240-260gr or so) and get it just below the sound barrier. Good to go!

 

[Laxguy59]

If you want subsonic 44 Mag, why not just use 44 Spl? And if you're handloading, you can get a good heavy bullet (240-260gr or so) and get it just below the sound barrier. Good to go!

Read the post wiener, all the 44's have slow twist barrels, except for the 77/44 which can't hold the heavies usually due to a short magazine. I want a 300gr heavy sum-*****, not something the 44 special usually comes form the factory with and not anywhere near the sound barrier. And if I'm just reloading 44 special, I may as well get the extra capacity of the 45LC which can get close to 44 mag velocity and weight, and do the slow heavy stuff as well since 45LC brass is all pretty much short 454Cas. I guess the Rossi 44mag lever is an option, but the 45LC would be cheaper to feed and easier to find ammo for thanks to the judge's popularity.

Also strangely enough 44 special 300gr subsonic handloads require a slower burning powder and create more muzzle pressure than a faster burning powder in a 44 magnum 300gr subsonic at the same speed, therefore the magnum loaded for subsonic would be quieter. I assume 45 LC is similar and that is why I am asking if anyone knows the muzzle pressure on it.

Fun fact 45ACP from 5" barrel at <900fps is about 5kpsi, and 44 magnum 300gr at 1000fps from a 16" barrel is about 1.5k, so it should be a seriously quiet thumper.

Buy a Taurus Circuit Judge in 45 LC, make a short handy rifle even with a suppressor. I love 45 LC, but I hot rod all of mine with H110 instead of slow em down.

Can't suppress a revolver, cylinder gap would just blow out all the extra pressure

there are two or three custom shops that are building integrally suppressed 77/44's, so I'm surprised at the question on the magazines for the Ruger.

Most of the integrals are ported to bleed off the speed so the 250-275gr stuff will go subsonic in it, so the 300 grains are just not used as often in them. some 300's fit, some don't.

 

[Laxguy59]

I guess my big question, is if I really lose anything by switching to 45LC over the 44 mag?
both have readily available subsonic factory ammo, the 45LC can get darn near close to some 44 mag numbers, the 45LC guns have faster twist rates for the most part so 300gr's is safe, and heavy jacketed 45LC is not all that difficult to find.

 

[1006]

I would stick with the 44mag. I had a 45colt. The brass is generally week. I am no expert on the suppressor application but I think that all the guns you looked at will work for short range slow heavy bullets, even with the slower twist rate. I don't think the bullet would destabilize to the point of hitting the suppressor. I would guess that they would be accurate out to 100yards. A smooth bore shotgun will accurately hit a 25 yard target with an unrifled slug.

Good luck on the project. Please don't call me a wiener if you don't appreciate my response.

 

[Laxguy59]

I would stick with the 44mag. I had a 45colt. The brass is generally week. I am no expert on the suppressor application but I think that all the guns you looked at will work for short range slow heavy bullets, even with the slower twist rate. I don't think the bullet would destabilize to the point of hitting the suppressor. I would guess that they would be accurate out to 100yards. A smooth bore shotgun will accurately hit a 25 yard target with an unrifled slug.

Good luck on the project. Please don't call me a wiener if you don't appreciate my response.

Only Jwhited is a wiener. I suppose its hard to tell about the accuracy. I have read on other forums people talking about 12" grouping at short distances and making it seem like the the 1:38 was making for some terrible accuracy once they started going past 270gr.

What are you shooting 45colt from? I read this in regards to claims that the brass is weak.

Linebaugh wrote that many .45 Colt revolvers have generously sized chambers, and the resulting overworking of the brass as it went through cycles of full-length sizing and firing in those large chambers also contributed to the stories of .45 Colt brass being weak.

 

[Petro_58]

Something in a Thompson Contender or Nef rifle?