9mm OAL with mild powders and lead bullets

[Animalguy]

Been experimenting with mid range powders( cause I have a lot)
Red Dot , SR 7625, Unique with 147gr flat point bullets. Can't find a lot of specific data for OAL, because I actually use a couple of custom 9mm bullets. Just wondering about general observations and experience with OAL and these powders. I've moved OAL around some and can't find much difference. I'm loading kinda light, 850-900 fps.
I also wonder if groups would tighten up if I pushed them harder and got pressures up.

I'm not a novice. I know about published data.

Also interested in your experience with WSF and CFE Pistol and 147gr lead.

 

[1006]

My experience: OAL will not effect accuracy at 30 yards or less on a pistol.

I adjust the OAL for smooth feeding--usually to the max length possible in a given mag and chamber combination.

I like Red Dot for accuracy loads and light to medium power range in all pistol calibers.

 

[Flashover16]

1006 is dead on as far as I am concerned.
I would only add that as I have multiple different 9 MM that I set OAL to the weapon with the tightest tolerances as to chamber and magazine.
I use Unique, Hp-38 (win 231) accurate #5 and HS-6.
I like the Accurate #5 its both cleaner and more ump than the others as well as being ball powder so flows well.

 

[rbstern]

In 9mm, I don't worry about OAL for accuracy. My best 9mm load with a cast bullet has a short OAL. Of greater concern is pressure as it relates to seating depth.

Any idea what the diameter and hardness of those 147 gr. bullets are? And what gun are you shooting them thru?

 

[woodstock]

I load my 9 to the max oal that works in my pistol. Never go less than minimum oal.

 

[coach482]

I load my 9 to the max oal that works in my pistol. Never go less than minimum oal.

X2

 

[noylj]

What do you hope to gain from adjusting COL?
In general, best accuracy is with the longest COL that feeds and chambers 100%.
However, if you are shooting inside 25 yards, it just doesn't matter.

You may know the following, but just in case:


Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"


Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

[Animalguy]

In 9mm, I don't worry about OAL for accuracy. My best 9mm load with a cast bullet has a short OAL. Of greater concern is pressure as it relates to seating depth.

Any idea what the diameter and hardness of those 147 gr. bullets are? And what gun are you shooting them thru?

They are .356 cast bullets in a LoneWolf Glock 17 barrel.
They are pure clip on wheel weights, plenty hard, but I forget BH.

 

[Animalguy]

What do you hope to gain from adjusting COL?
In general, best accuracy is with the longest COL that feeds and chambers 100%.
However, if you are shooting inside 25 yards, it just doesn't matter.

You may know the following, but just in case:


Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"


Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

I was hoping to glean info from others experience. I didn't know how drastically OAL might affect positively or negatively. I was hoping someone would say something like " _____ powder shot like crap until I shortened/lengthened OAL." Or " _____ powder shot better as I got nearer ____ charge." Or the like.

I wondered if shorter OAL would increase pressure a little with relatively light loads, since 9mm seems to perform better at higher pressure.

I'm glad to hear that it doesn't affect much, so I'll stop experimenting with it.

 

[Nuke And Juke]

WSF for 9mm??? No. WSF has great applications in the 40sw and the 45ACP. It's such a great powder that I wouldn't piss it away in a 9mm.