Argue for Mandated Training So As To Exercise a Basic Civil Right

[InitialKev]

This is a completely worthless example of a foolish backwards argument. "mature enough to make one decision" (join the military). But not mature enough to make a decision to carry without, the same could be applied to any other person of any age group....

"Carry without" what?

What can be applied to any other person in any age group?

Can you please clarify why you think it's a worthless, foolish and backwards argument in a coherent paragraph?

 

[batoncolle]

Yeah I did admit that I swept the guy with the gun. It was my first time ever handling a firearm. Are you telling me that you've never done it? Are you saying that the first time you handled a firearm that you absolutely did not do something unsafe? I've been very careful since then and have had no accidents in the two and a half years that I've owned and carried a gun. Is it bound to happen one day? Sure. The risk is always there. Yeah I didn't take an official safety training course but I was taught safe handling. Hypocrisy is defined as -The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess. What would make me a hypocrite is if I was the kind of person that people in THIS thread is talking about being unsafe at the range.

Alcoholics should go to AA meetings. Am I a hypocrite for suggesting that because I'm not an alcoholic and haven't been to an AA meeting to know the benefits it would have?

You pulled up a statistics on accidental gun deaths. Good for you but can you pull up one for negligent discharges/ accidents that didn't result in death or how many times someone does something unsafe? Probably not. You compared car accident deaths to gun accident deaths but the frequency of use between the two things is way disproportionate making it an invalid comparison. This is the second time I brought this up because you didn't address it the first time. I wonder why...

The problem with statistics is that it can be muddied and what you come up with can differ depending on where or who you get the statistic from. Not every accident is reported and thus not included in whatever statistic you found. The mere fact that you are arguing that safety training is completely ineffective just boggles my mind.

You know two can play this game. Show me a statistic that says firearms safety training courses are ineffective. You probably can't because there has to be information on both sides to be able to directly compare.

The fact that there were 606 accidental gun deaths in 2010 shows that it isn't just "some perceived issue that does not even exist".

You are a hypocrite because you want to require people to take a safety training class, but yet you will not take one yourself. If that is not the definition, then there is no definition for it. And you are the one that brought driving into this conversation, and I simply showed you the number of accidental deaths from firearms is miniscule. I could give a crap about injuries, and if you want to know so bad look it up.

But hey let's just cut out all the common sense because obviously that does not work with you. I will break it down to an emotional level. I am perfectly fine walking around in public every day with my family knowing that I am crossing paths with other law abiding citizens carrying firearms who may not have taken a firearm's safety course. In fact I feel more safe because I know they are carrying. And I am not going to give up yet one more piece of freedom just because it gives you some false sense of security. This world has become so pathetically wussified that you are actually worried about a .0002% chance of being accidentally killed by a firearm...

 

[InitialKev]

You are a hypocrite because you want to require people to take a safety training class, but yet you will not take one yourself. If that is not the definition, then there is no definition for it. And you are the one that brought driving into this conversation, and I simply showed you the number of accidental deaths from firearms is miniscule. I could give a crap about injuries, and if you want to know so bad look it up.

But hey let's just cut out all the common sense because obviously that does not work with you. I will break it down to an emotional level. I am perfectly fine walking around in public every day with my family knowing that I am crossing paths with other law abiding citizens carrying firearms who may not have taken a firearm's safety course. In fact I feel more safe because I know they are carrying. And I am not going to give up yet one more piece of freedom just because it gives you some false sense of security. This world has become so pathetically wussified that you are actually worried about a .0002% chance of being accidentally killed by a firearm...

Oh look at that...no statistic to prove that safety training courses are ineffective. What a surprise. You're trying to get me to provide evidence that supports my claim and yet you can't do the same. Hypocrisy much? BTW a statistic on accidental gun deaths is not the same thing.

I don't live in fear about getting shot by an idiot with a gun but it's good to know you don't care about the well being of others.

 

[Cobalt 60]

606 accidental gun deaths in an entire year is just about statistically insignificant. This does not seem to me to be a "problem" that justifies imposing new taxes and requirements on the millions of law abiding gun carrying citizens.

 

[InitialKev]

What about just new or soon to be gun owners? No? Okay fine. Whatever.

Anyways I'm done talking about this. I've said all that I want to. You can't change my mind and I can't change any of yours. We're all a little bit hypocritical whether we admit/ know it or not.

 

[Jeddak]

Looks you failed to take a mandatory class ''Internet posting 101". You have to take it first in order to excise your First Amendment properly.
We do not know if you qualified to assemble with others on the internet and speak your mind.

 

[batoncolle]

Oh look at that...no statistic to prove that safety training courses are ineffective. What a surprise. You're trying to get me to provide evidence that supports my claim and yet you can't do the same. Hypocrisy much? BTW a statistic on accidental gun deaths is not the same thing.

I don't live in fear about getting shot by an idiot with a gun but it's good to know you don't care about the well being of others.

I never once referenced safety classes as being ineffective in this thread, and I never once asked to you provide evidence regarding their effectiveness. You are mistaking me for another poster.

I am not arguing against the effectiveness of safety training classes because I simply do not care. The reasons against safety classes are long such as high prices to keep low income people from carrying, long wait times to get in classes, and the potential for government to tack on more restrictions once they get their foot in the door.

I am against safety training classes because they are not Constitutional. And to then make the argument that we already have to get a license, which is also Unconstitutional, so why not add on other Unconstitutional restrictions, like safety training, is just stupid. You started out this argument saying that people should take safety classes because you "would NOT like to have immature idiots running around with guns" essentially implying there was some current safety crisis amongst firearm owners. I provided you with a common sense statistic that shows it is almost impossible to die from a firearm related accident, and to top it all off, you have not taken a safety course yourself so I can only assume this makes you one of those "immature idiots running around with a gun" - your words, not mine.

 

[FbodTrek]

606 accidental gun deaths in an entire year is just about statistically insignificant. This does not seem to me to be a "problem" that justifies imposing new taxes and requirements on the millions of law abiding gun carrying citizens.

Or you could just name a few thousand things ABOVE guns on the 'accidental or negligent death" involvement scale.
Things far less SCARY.

YES, training makes people safer. I can ASSURE you however that in states with mandated training, the training is NOTHING but a joke, and merely there to garner revenue. So no, they don't have safety in mind at all. Again, I'm from TX, where we have to undergo "training" before being allowed our carry license.

I've seen a dozen videos on youtube of HIGHLY trained law enforcement having accidents WHILE demonstrating and teaching about safety!

FECAL MATTER HAPPENS. Stay out from in front of muzzle. Keep finger off bang button.

 

[InitialKev]

I never once referenced safety classes as being ineffective in this thread, and I never once asked to you provide evidence regarding their effectiveness. You are mistaking me for another poster.

I am not arguing against the effectiveness of safety training classes because I simply do not care. The reasons against safety classes are long such as high prices to keep low income people from carrying, long wait times to get in classes, and the potential for government to tack on more restrictions once they get their foot in the door.

I am against safety training classes because they are not Constitutional. And to then make the argument that we already have to get a license, which is also Unconstitutional, so why not add on other Unconstitutional restrictions, like safety training, is just stupid. You started out this argument saying that people should take safety classes because you "would NOT like to have immature idiots running around with guns" essentially implying there was some current safety crisis amongst firearm owners. I provided you with a common sense statistic that shows it is almost impossible to die from a firearm related accident, and to top it all off, you have not taken a safety course yourself so I can only assume this makes you one of those "immature idiots running around with a gun" - your words, not mine.

Excuse me for mistaking you for another poster. It was dunkel who insisted I show a statistic to support my claim. I originally said "If safety training is required to obtain a carry license, that would hopefully reduce accidents and help educate people." He goes on the offensive and keeps asking me to show evidence which implies that I am wrong and that he disagrees. How can anyone disagree that teaching and educating is beneficial? If he can show me a statistic that says safety courses are ineffective, fine I'll shut up. If he is so strung up on proving me wrong he would have done it already.

You keep saying that I'm a hypocrite because I haven't taken a course. What's the difference between a formal in classroom lesson and an informal lesson outside of a classroom by someone who is knowledgeable? I still LEARN about safe gun handling.

I made a suggestion, a personal opinion based on the observations by OTD members as well as myself. Never did I say that every gun owner that hasn't gone through safety training was an immature idiot and that there was a "safety crisis" as you put it. You made that implication, not me. When you assume things, it make an ass out of yourself.

It's nice to know that you are against educating people on gun safety though. I hope you don't have kids. I would hate to see on the news that a child blew their brains out because their dad "simply do not care."

The 2nd amendment cannot be absolute and taken as it is written due to common sense. If you preach the 2nd amendment but try to put ANY personal restrictions on it you become a hypocrite.

 

[Jeddak]

And now you are putting words in people's mouth's. We are not against safety training, we are against MANDATORY safety training before we can exercise our 2 Amd rights .
Looks like you still have not taken the mandatory internet posting class. You MAY NOT post on the internet without it. You MAY NOT exercise your 1Amd rights. Wrong ideas killed way too many people in this country. You are unable to follow the logical discussion without mandatory 1st Amd training.