Arms trade treaty....

[dunkel]

The 2A protects the right, it does not grant it.

What is the functional difference?

 

[batoncolle]

Semantics.

In practical terms, yes, the Constitution does grant the rights. If there wasn't a Second Amendment, we'd really be in some trouble, no matter what the Declaration of Independence has to say about inalienable rights granted by some "creator".

Well at least you got the Creator part right.

The Constitution DOES NOT grant rights. It establishes the limited power that WE THE PEOPLE ALLOW the government to have.

And because people do not understand it, this is why our country is so screwed...

 

[dunkel]

Well at least you got the Creator part right.

Jefferson's words, not mine. I would interpret that, if I had to, as "nature" or whatever.

The Constitution DOES NOT grant rights. It establishes the limited power that WE THE PEOPLE ALLOW the government to have.

Again...what is the functional difference?

And this is why our country is so screwed...

meh

 

[batoncolle]

Jefferson's words, not mine. I would interpret that, if I had to, as "nature" or whatever.



Again...what is the functional difference?



meh

Does it really need to be explained to you??? If the government is able to grant us rights, then they can take them away at a whim. Understand now???

 

[dunkel]

Does it really need to be explained to you??? If the government is able to grant us rights, then they can take them away at a whim. Understand now???

Which they can do...which they have done...in practical terms.

So I ask you...again...what is the functional difference?

 

[batoncolle]

Which they can do...which they have done...in practical terms.

So I ask you...again...what is the functional difference?

No they have not done so. We have simply allowed them to do it. It only takes an educated voting class to reverse this mess, and that is why the functional difference is very important because if you believe the government truly grants you some rights, like say healthcare, then the country is truly screwed.

 

[hikingthehills]

Which they can do...which they have done...in practical terms.

Leaving many people with the false belief that they are free is what goverment does best.

 

[strider12]

Leaving many people with the false belief that they are free is what goverment does best.

See my sig.

 

[dunkel]

No they have not done so. We have simply allowed them to do it.

Do you understand what I mean when I say "functional difference"? Whether we "allowed them" or they just did it...the rights were taken away...

It only takes an educated voting class to reverse this mess, and that is why the functional difference is very important because if you believe the government truly grants you some rights, like say healthcare, then the country is truly screwed.

No, that is why the "in theory" part is so important.

Government is a tool to control and/or serve the people. That's it. We have whichever "rights" we demand, take, force them to give us...no more. If we, as a society, believe that we should have this or that right, then we have to work to establish and protect it. If we don't do what is necessary to establish or protect it, then we effectively don't have that right.

I know you want to believe in "god given rights" or whatever, but we are dealing with reality here. And the reality is that we only have the rights, in any meaningful manner, that we take and hold onto for ourselves. All your talk of "god given rights" is utterly useless except, perhaps, as a rhetorical tool.

 

[dunkel]

Leaving many people with the false belief that they are free is what goverment does best.

No one is more of a slave than he who thinks himself free without being so.

JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE

Yup