Arms trade treaty....

[dunkel]

Well that is why the majority of Founding Father's won out and those rights were listed as they were considered important enough to protect. 9 and 10 just confirm why the Founding Fathers were so wise because these amendments say 1 - 8 are not the only important rights. And 9 makes clear that the rights are indeed the People's and not the Government's so they are not granted so to speak.

In theory, yes. In practice...not so much.

And it is not a tool to whip up the masses.

Yes it is. The argument itself means nothing. Does nothing. Saying that the Constitution protects the rights, it doesn't grant them doesn't stop the government from coming in and taking our guns. It does, however, help motivate some people to vote the right way or whatever.

If people would just understand that we grant the rights to the government, then we would not be in the mess we are in today. We need Statesman instead of politicians, but that is enough hijacking of this thread.

Well, I'm sure we'd have some other mess, but yes, in theory, I agree with you.

 

[Constitution Hour]

wow, talking about a drama queen

Not really drama as much as it is the truth. Regardless of what words men write in stone or on paper.

 

[RallySport]

So many great facts, quotes, and and some good opinions, a classroom in its self...

 

[Cobalt 60]

We have whichever "rights" we demand, take, force them to give us...no more. If we, as a society, believe that we should have this or that right, then we have to work to establish and protect it. If we don't do what is necessary to establish or protect it, then we effectively don't have that right.

This I agree with - a people only have those rights which they are willing and able to secure for themselves.

 

[Cobalt 60]

The semantics aspect is very important because people have to understand that we grant the power to the government and not the other way around.

THIS is exactly why we have to insist on discussing these issues with these terms.