-
ODT Gun Show & Swap Meet - May 4, 2024! - Click here for info
Assess two Win 13's
- Thread starter akitaems
- Start date
What do you want to know? @MILSURP Collector
will4me
TheGman
@parolebear
alleycat
Fire away. @Hayata @daytonlawvol @Nate
will4me
TheGman
@parolebear
alleycat
Fire away. @Hayata @daytonlawvol @Nate
Maybe post up some pics? Receiver? Barrel? Anything with a drawing # on it?
- WRA: 1,357,474 to 1,387,9xx (WRA overrun of SA serial numbers) ~30,000 +
- SA:.... 2,415,850 to 2,540,xxx (SA overrun of WRA serial numbers) ~121,000 +
- WRA: 1,601,150 to 1,640,4xx (WRA overrun of SA serial numbers, the "WIN-13" variation) ~39,000 +
'WIN-13' article by Dick Culver published in CMP's Apr 98 "The First Shot",.....
"The Win-13s"
By Dick Culver
(Originally published in the April 1998 Edition of the CMP Newsletter "The First Shot")
If you have been into the collecting of M1 Rifles for any length of time you will hear of several models of the M1 Rifle referred to by names that would appear to be in code to the uninitiated. Here I will cover the rifles that have come to be called "The dash 13 Winchesters", usually abbreviated "Win - 13s".
During W.W.II the M1 Rifle was produced by only two manufacturers, Springfield Armory and Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The 1903 Springfield as it was commonly called had been made by both Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal prior to W.W.II and in various guises by both Remington and Smith Corona during the final stages of its production during W.W.II.
Starting in 1903 there were no separate serial number ranges assigned to Springfield and Rock Island; they both simply started with serial number 1 and continued until their final production. This really caused no appreciable problem(s), as Springfield serial number 1 was easily identified as being different from Rock Island serial number 1 etc.
Furthermore, 1911 pattern pistols were treated similarly in the pre-W.W.II era with Colt, and Remington-UMC both having totally separate serial number ranges. Again this really caused no recorded problems, but by W.W.II the United States Government had started assigning "serial number blocks" to military weapons manufacturers. For instance, 1903 pattern rifles manufactured by Remington were a continuation of the old Springfield Armory numbers. The later Remington 1903A3s and A4s were a further continuation of the Springfield numbers. Smith Corona was assigned a separate sequential number block in the continuation of the original Springfield serial numbers.
With the Start of the production of the M1 Rifle however, it was planned from the onset to simply assign serial number blocks to each weapons facility contracted to produce the new service rifle. The range of numbers started with #1 and progressed until the last known M1 receiver was stamped with serial number 6,099,905. Due to unused blocks of numbers, the actual total production has been estimated at 5,468,772 rifles. Even though each manufacturer received their own block of numbers, sometimes there was a glitch. If you will check the assigned serial number ranges published in Scott Duff's book, "THE M1 GARAND: World War II", you will find that an administrative "hiccup" resulted in over 20,000 (some say closer to 30,000) serial numbers being duplicated by both Springfield and Winchester between serial numbers 1,357,474 and 1,380,000. A less well-known (seemingly) duplicate range of numbers occurred starting with serial number 1,601,000. Although the 1,6XX,XXX serial number range falls within the numbers assigned to Springfield, it is not known whether Springfield ever produced any rifles within that group of numbers.
Winchester was producing rifles in the 2,5XX,XXX number range in early January 1945 and suddenly and inexplicably started producing rifles with a lower serial number range starting with 1.601,000. This series of serial numbers continued through Winchester's final production at serial number 1,640,000 in June 1945 for a total of 39,000 rifles. Starting with serial number1.601,000, Winchester changed their drawing number on the right leg of the receiver from D28291-2 to D28291-Win-13. This designation has caused the collectors of M1 Garands to refer to these rifles as "Win-13s".
Other features on the Win-13s that delineate them from the earlier Winchester M1s include the use of the so called "straight cut, flat sided operating rod" as opposed to the slant cut op-rod used on Winchester's previous production. All previous Winchesters also used the solid, single slotted gas cylinder lock screw, while the Win-13s used the cross slotted "poppet valve" gas cylinder lock screw designed to be used with a grenade launcher. According to "The M1 GARAND: World War II" by Scott Duff, some of the late production Win-13 examples have been authenticated with stocks devoid of either the standard Winchester cartouche or the crossed-cannon ordnance stamp.
Since a production total of 39,000 rifles places the Win-13s in a position of relative rarity, the Win-13 has become one of the more sought after variations of the M1 rifles by dedicated Garand collectors. An air of mystery will probably always surround the serial number switch that caused this interesting Winchester variation top be one of the least common of our W.W.II production rifles.
"The Win-13s"
By Dick Culver
(Originally published in the April 1998 Edition of the CMP Newsletter "The First Shot")
If you have been into the collecting of M1 Rifles for any length of time you will hear of several models of the M1 Rifle referred to by names that would appear to be in code to the uninitiated. Here I will cover the rifles that have come to be called "The dash 13 Winchesters", usually abbreviated "Win - 13s".
During W.W.II the M1 Rifle was produced by only two manufacturers, Springfield Armory and Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The 1903 Springfield as it was commonly called had been made by both Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal prior to W.W.II and in various guises by both Remington and Smith Corona during the final stages of its production during W.W.II.
Starting in 1903 there were no separate serial number ranges assigned to Springfield and Rock Island; they both simply started with serial number 1 and continued until their final production. This really caused no appreciable problem(s), as Springfield serial number 1 was easily identified as being different from Rock Island serial number 1 etc.
Furthermore, 1911 pattern pistols were treated similarly in the pre-W.W.II era with Colt, and Remington-UMC both having totally separate serial number ranges. Again this really caused no recorded problems, but by W.W.II the United States Government had started assigning "serial number blocks" to military weapons manufacturers. For instance, 1903 pattern rifles manufactured by Remington were a continuation of the old Springfield Armory numbers. The later Remington 1903A3s and A4s were a further continuation of the Springfield numbers. Smith Corona was assigned a separate sequential number block in the continuation of the original Springfield serial numbers.
With the Start of the production of the M1 Rifle however, it was planned from the onset to simply assign serial number blocks to each weapons facility contracted to produce the new service rifle. The range of numbers started with #1 and progressed until the last known M1 receiver was stamped with serial number 6,099,905. Due to unused blocks of numbers, the actual total production has been estimated at 5,468,772 rifles. Even though each manufacturer received their own block of numbers, sometimes there was a glitch. If you will check the assigned serial number ranges published in Scott Duff's book, "THE M1 GARAND: World War II", you will find that an administrative "hiccup" resulted in over 20,000 (some say closer to 30,000) serial numbers being duplicated by both Springfield and Winchester between serial numbers 1,357,474 and 1,380,000. A less well-known (seemingly) duplicate range of numbers occurred starting with serial number 1,601,000. Although the 1,6XX,XXX serial number range falls within the numbers assigned to Springfield, it is not known whether Springfield ever produced any rifles within that group of numbers.
Winchester was producing rifles in the 2,5XX,XXX number range in early January 1945 and suddenly and inexplicably started producing rifles with a lower serial number range starting with 1.601,000. This series of serial numbers continued through Winchester's final production at serial number 1,640,000 in June 1945 for a total of 39,000 rifles. Starting with serial number1.601,000, Winchester changed their drawing number on the right leg of the receiver from D28291-2 to D28291-Win-13. This designation has caused the collectors of M1 Garands to refer to these rifles as "Win-13s".
Other features on the Win-13s that delineate them from the earlier Winchester M1s include the use of the so called "straight cut, flat sided operating rod" as opposed to the slant cut op-rod used on Winchester's previous production. All previous Winchesters also used the solid, single slotted gas cylinder lock screw, while the Win-13s used the cross slotted "poppet valve" gas cylinder lock screw designed to be used with a grenade launcher. According to "The M1 GARAND: World War II" by Scott Duff, some of the late production Win-13 examples have been authenticated with stocks devoid of either the standard Winchester cartouche or the crossed-cannon ordnance stamp.
Since a production total of 39,000 rifles places the Win-13s in a position of relative rarity, the Win-13 has become one of the more sought after variations of the M1 rifles by dedicated Garand collectors. An air of mystery will probably always surround the serial number switch that caused this interesting Winchester variation top be one of the least common of our W.W.II production rifles.
I can look at them as I live in Paulding and not that far from you.
Just shoot me a PM if you are Interested in that.
Value is selective as to a lot of Variables but I can give you a Fair market value as to what they should bring sold together or apart.
I just need to put my eyes on them or detailed Description with pictures.
Let me know if I can help.
Just shoot me a PM if you are Interested in that.
Value is selective as to a lot of Variables but I can give you a Fair market value as to what they should bring sold together or apart.
I just need to put my eyes on them or detailed Description with pictures.
Let me know if I can help.
What do you want to know? @MILSURP Collector
10thmountain
great information to give out I am always learning about these wonderful Rifles and the more we spread the word the more people will love and collect them too.But as you know I have a few M1-Garand's myself LOL.
