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Beware Experian

Mostly my wife, but myself on occasion, peruse our bills carefully to ensure they don't slip something in we didn't order. I caught Comcast adding a "modem rental fee" for my cable internet. Problem with that is, I have always bought and use my own modems. Never rented one, never will. They tried to say it was a "computer error." No, it was an intentional attempt to chisel more money out of me. They also raised my rates a couple of months ago, with no notice. I called and raised hell, told them that AT&T had fiber to the home here, and they just gave me the final push to switch. They apologized and dropped my former rate by $15 a month, about $25 less than the new rate they tried to slip under the radar. It all adds up over time.
 
Shotgun Surgery said:
Having a good credit score usually just means that someone finds themselves into debt quite frequently. Smart people don't get into debt in the first place.
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That's not true at all. The very smartest and richest are in tons of debt, using other peoples money to make more money. I'm not smart or rich, but I'm smart enough to have a 2% car loan and keep my money in the market. My entire portfolio earned 33% last year. Ditto on my 2.875% mortgage. Having debt has nothing to do with net worth, my net worth far exceeds my debt, but I do have debt and intend to keep it forever.
 
adrianrog said:
That's not true at all. The very smartest and richest are in tons of debt, using other peoples money to make more money. I'm not smart or rich, but I'm smart enough to have a 2% car loan and keep my money in the market. My entire portfolio earned 33% last year. Ditto on my 2.875% mortgage. Having debt has nothing to do with net worth, my net worth far exceeds my debt, but I do have debt and intend to keep it forever.
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You're smart enough to pay 2% interest on money you borrowed to buy a rapidly depreciating asset? The wisest thing to do when it comes to vehicles and finance is to buy an old but lightly used car outright.

Also, your portfolio went up 33% last year? Last year as in Jan. 1st 2019 to Dec. 31st 2019? If so then it likely lost quite a lot late February to mid March this year. Hopefully you didn't sell at the 'bottom' and are up or at least even now, but I'd suggest getting out while you still can.

You're right to suggest that productive debt can be a good thing, but most debt that exists now isn't the productive kind.
 
Yes, my porfolio was up 33% in one calendar year, but that was a good year, one of several in a row. I lost a lot at the beginning of the Covid 19 thing, but it's all back and then some. I lost a lot in 2009 too, but it was back within a few years. I've only been investing for around 15 years and agressive funds continue to do well over the long term for me. Yes, if I had a 5 year outlook, it's risky, but I don't need the money now so it's not. I don't care if I loose 50% of my investment tomorrow because it means I'm continuing to buy at a huge discount and I firmly believe it will be back as it has been time and time again.

I agree that a new car isn't productive debt, but you have to live and you can't take it with you. If momma wants a car, momma gets a car. I personally have a 10 year old truck, but vehicles aren't my thing. The point being that anyone who pays cash for a car could do OK to take that same cash an invest it, especially when the market is down and so are interest rates. The math is super easy.

I do also expect to loose a bunch of money between now and November,but I expect it'll be back by March at the latest. I've been considering trying to time that by selling now, buying after November, but most experts say not to do that.
 
Even if you deal in cash, you are still dealing in debt. Isn't a fiat USD defined right on the face, as a "Federal Reserve Note"?

In other words, an IOU (nothing) with an expiration date written in invisible ink.
 
If the market lost 50% of its value right now it would still be overpriced. The current bubble we are in is as large as the dot com bubble, except everything is in a bubble instead of just tech stocks. You said you've been investing for 15 years, but the Federal Reserve has had an especially heavy hand in the markets since the early 1990s. Natural market forces didn't create the dot com bubble of 2000. Natural market forces didn't create the housing bubble of 2008. Natural market forces aren't creating the current everything bubble of 2020. This wouldn't be a problem if the Federal Reserve could inflate and reinflate ever bubble from now on, and all of your past experience in the markets is of exactly this, but it's becoming apparent that they're losing all control. There's just too much debt, and once people realize that investing in debt that will never be paid back is a bad idea then the whole system will collapse.

In truth, the current system is set up so that the ultra-rich can take as much as possible from the working class. The stock market is one of the main tools on how they accomplish this. Just keep in mind that just as losses aren't realized until you sell, neither are profits. Only the people who sell at the top or before make profit; everyone after that is left holding the bag, and that constitutes the vast majority of people who invest.
 
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