bumpstock ramifications

[chucklenut]

i think the new ruling is stupid. i understand that no one should list bumpstocks on here because it could land them in legal trouble possibly

what exactly is the penalty for possesion of a bump stock? it is not an automatic weapon, explosive device, or shortbarrel firearm nor a suppressor so what is the penalty

im not going to but what if i were to cut a piece of wood out, make a "bump board"; still illegal??

 

[TheGman]

Where can i get the plan? Asking for a friend.

 

[spencer60]

I was catching up on podcasts last night and heard Joshua Prince talk about this on the Tom Gresham radio show.

His advice was for owners to not do anything yet...

There is a preliminary injunction filed that should be decided in the next week or so, and he was pretty certain it will be granted. It revolved around a whole slew of legal issues with 'administrative law', including not allowing requested hearings, and the fact that Mr. Whitaker isn't a Senate-confirmed AG and has no legal authority to issue new rules that impose criminal penalties.

He ran through half a dozen administrative issues that the ATF either side-stepped or got wrong before he even got down to the actual legal issues around the stocks and the ATF rulings themselves.

It sounds like this ban could be held up in court for a while.

 

[chucklenut]

I was catching up on podcasts last night and heard Joshua Prince talk about this on the Tom Gresham radio show.

His advice was for owners to not do anything yet...

There is a preliminary injunction filed that should be decided in the next week or so, and he was pretty certain it will be granted. It revolved around a whole slew of legal issues with 'administrative law', including not allowing requested hearings, and the fact that Mr. Whitaker isn't a Senate-confirmed AG and has no legal authority to issue new rules that impose criminal penalties.

He ran through half a dozen administrative issues that the ATF either side-stepped or got wrong before he even got down to the actual legal issues around the stocks and the ATF rulings themselves.

It sounds like this ban could be held up in court for a while.

i figured that any lawsuits following this would smash the ban. everytime a pro2nd amendment case goes to higher courts it wins. only way the antigunners can win is by keeping the courts from hearing valid arguments

that being said, the NRA is the one NOT taking up this fight from what it seems (if im wrong let me know). donate to a group that gives a **** if you are going to donate at all

 

[letusbuyyourcar]

Damn it just gets gayer and gayer.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Assuming this is a legitimate post, Chucklenut, belonging in the "law and order" section and not the "stupid stuff" section of ODT:

Answer 1: Congress passed laws years ago restricting both machineguns and machinegun conversion kits-- things used to convert semi-autos to full autos. That's actual statutory law, not any ruling or fill-in-the-gaps stretching of the law by ATF. Recently ATF stretched these laws by saying bump stocks ARE machinegun conversion parts sets. Therefore, they are NFA restricted as machineguns.

The penalty for having one is up to 10 years in prison. 3 would be more realistic.
The crime would be called unlawful possession of an unregistered, untaxed machine gun.


Answer 2: The bump board "could be" classified by ATF as a machinegun, too, but they have not so ruled. So if they decided to make an issue out of it, you'd probably only have it confiscated, not be arrested and prosecuted as a felon. Only after they publish their rules in the Federal Register does the public have notice, and thus it's not a Due Process of Law violation to punish people criminally for breaking that publicly-known law.

 

[chucklenut]

Assuming this is a legitimate post, Chucklenut, belonging in the "law and order" section and not the "stupid stuff" section of ODT:

Answer 1: Congress passed laws years ago restricting both machineguns and machinegun conversion kits-- things used to convert semi-autos to full autos. That's actual statutory law, not any ruling or fill-in-the-gaps stretching of the law by ATF. Recently ATF stretched these laws by saying bump stocks ARE machinegun conversion parts sets. Therefore, they are NFA restricted as machineguns.

The penalty for having one is up to 10 years in prison. 3 would be more realistic.
The crime would be called unlawful possession of an unregistered, untaxed machine gun.


Answer 2: The bump board "could be" classified by ATF as a machinegun, too, but they have not so ruled. So if they decided to make an issue out of it, you'd probably only have it confiscated, not be arrested and prosecuted as a felon. Only after they publish their rules in the Federal Register does the public have notice, and thus it's not a Due Process of Law violation to punish people criminally for breaking that publicly-known law.

why wouldnt this or any of my posts ever be anything but legit? im too legit to quit dawg

but serious, so what gives gov agencies like the ATF authority to admister law via beaurocratic opinion? are lawsuits the only legal recourse?

to sum it up, bumpstocks now fall into the camp of lightning links??

 

[TheGman]

I continue to contend based upon my simpleton understanding of the “law” restricting so called machine guns that one trigger pulls = multiple rounds fired.

The bump stock or this device do not fit that description . The trigger is rapidly reset many times to achieve an accelerated rate of fire. Not one pull.

Letter of the law does matter.

Rate of fire restrictions are not in place in law or exec fiat to my knowledge.

 

[Morgan]

so what gives gov agencies like the ATF authority to admister law

Ask David Koresh

 

[spencer60]

i figured that any lawsuits following this would smash the ban. everytime a pro2nd amendment case goes to higher courts it wins. only way the antigunners can win is by keeping the courts from hearing valid arguments

that being said, the NRA is the one NOT taking up this fight from what it seems (if im wrong let me know). donate to a group that gives a **** if you are going to donate at all

Probably for the best... the NRA is good at (national) legislative wrangling. When it comes to court cases they suck and they should simply step back and let the pros handle those. That's OK, we need groups in every area. I'm not knocking the NRA (unlike a lot of folks), they did the best they could do with a crappy situation.

But it will be the courts that decide in the end, and it will be really interesting to watch. These cases are more than about the 500,000 bump stocks out there. The precedents could impact the whole idea of government 'rulemaking' having the force of law.