Buy An NFA Trust From Individual??

[jcountry]

I saw this discussion on another thread.

I’m not sure that’s a great idea.

Somewhere or another, I saw an opinion by an NFA lawyer (think it was a video, and the lawyer was female.). She said that buying a trust like that is no a good idea. Sure, you can change the trustees and such, but if I understood her correctly, she said the grantor can never be really removed as long as the trust exists....

She said the danger is you sort of tie yourself to the person who created the trust in terms of liability. If something happens in their lives which has nothing at all do to with the trust (say a bad car wreck,) you could theoretically be attacked through that trust.

Anyone familiar with that perspective?

 

[rumrunner55]

This has been discussed before and while it seems plausible and a smart relatively legal way the feds tend to not think “that way” was the general consensus by both lawyer and layman on here

 

[jcountry]

Here’s another wrinkle:

https://www.myguntrust.com/can-friends-and-family-buy-nfa-firearms-with-my-gun-trust.html

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I think there's a big difference in the level of risk-- the possible negative consequences-- of


FIRST SCENARIO
(A) Letting friends and family members buy NFA items through your trust by you naming them as additional trustees, thus you're all sharing the same pool of weapons, even though they'll be keeping "their" toys at their home and you keep your NFA toys at your home, and

SECOND SCENARIO:
(B) You sell your trust and all the NFA items in it to some stranger, by naming him as the new SOLE trustee (not co-trustee with you), taking his cash, and turning over all the guns and other NFA stuff to him, and letting him ride off into the sunset, never to be seen by you again.

***************

In the first scenario, the risk is that somebody might steal an NFA item by taking possession of it and keeping it, and thus preventing the other trustees from having access to it, and this might be an NFA item that this person didn't pay for or pay the tax for. It would be basically a civil law violation. A breach of contract (agreement) or a breach of fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries, who are all supposed to get the NFA stuff eventually, unless the trust is revoked prior to a distribution.

In the second scenario, I think there's a risk that BATF will consider the attempt to convey the entire trust and all its contents to a stranger is FRAUD that voids the trust, and thus the new "owner" would not be legally considered a trustee who is entitled to possess those NFA items at all. The consequence of this could be prosecution by the U.S. Attorney's Office, a trial in federal district court, and 10 years in federal prison.

 

[jcountry]

I think there's a big difference in the level of risk-- the possible negative consequences-- of


FIRST SCENARIO
(A) Letting friends and family members buy NFA items through your trust by you naming them as additional trustees, thus you're all sharing the same pool of weapons, even though they'll be keeping "their" toys at their home and you keep your NFA toys at your home, and

SECOND SCENARIO:
(B) You sell your trust and all the NFA items in it to some stranger, by naming him as the new SOLE trustee (not co-trustee with you), taking his cash, and turning over all the guns and other NFA stuff to him, and letting him ride off into the sunset, never to be seen by you again.

***************

In the first scenario, the risk is that somebody might steal an NFA item by taking possession of it and keeping it, and thus preventing the other trustees from having access to it, and this might be an NFA item that this person didn't pay for or pay the tax for. It would be basically a civil law violation. A breach of contract (agreement) or a breach of fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries, who are all supposed to get the NFA stuff eventually, unless the trust is revoked prior to a distribution.

In the second scenario, I think there's a risk that BATF will consider the attempt to convey the entire trust and all its contents to a stranger is FRAUD that voids the trust, and thus the new "owner" would not be legally considered a trustee who is entitled to possess those NFA items at all. The consequence of this could be prosecution by the U.S. Attorney's Office, a trial in federal district court, and 10 years in federal prison.

Interesting.....

These trusts open up a lot of questions for me... The more I think about them, the more questions I have....

I wonder if you can will a trust to an entity.... Like a foundation.... I may have to look into that. My college now has a gun range, and my wife ain’t a gun person. Might have to check out how that would work. Would be cool for students to get a grin or two from shooting some old coot’s suppressors.

 

[workky]

Just call Dean Phillip's Law. Hes local and is very active in these forums. He is a gun trust attorney and handles other areas of law as well. I think is used is HeavyD. His website is nfalawyers.com

He did my trust and explained everything

 

[NWSharpshooter]

Interesting.....

These trusts open up a lot of questions for me... The more I think about them, the more questions I have....

I wonder if you can will a trust to an entity.... Like a foundation.... I may have to look into that. My college now has a gun range, and my wife ain’t a gun person. Might have to check out how that would work. Would be cool for students to get a grin or two from shooting some old coot’s suppressors.

That’s the whole idea of a trust to begin with. When you pass, the beneficiary becomes the owner of the trust.