Decocking a 1911

[jglenn]

"I heard that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked could cause the round to spin 180 inside the chamber and possibly AD into the carrier's face. Dude that warned me about it just couldn't explain why... "

B.S.



cocked and locked.. why would you ever carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a live round.. might as well carry it with an empty chamber and a full mag. then simply rack it.. much safer and just as quick .

if you intend to make the gun safe unload it.

 

[syates4]

"I heard that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked could cause the round to spin 180 inside the chamber and possibly AD into the carrier's face. Dude that warned me about it just couldn't explain why... "

B.S.



cocked and locked.. why would you ever carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a live round.. might as well carry it with an empty chamber and a full mag. then simply rack it.. much safer and just as quick .

if you intend to make the gun safe unload it.

I think you missed my point by a hair. Thanks for explaining that it should be cocked and locked though, feel like I have been reading a poll.

 

[RockRiver]

I think you missed my point by a hair. Thanks for explaining that it should be cocked and locked though, feel like I have been reading a poll.

It's not designed to be carried hammer down. Besides the fact that you'd have to cock that little hammer to fire the dang thing, if you dropped it, it could possibly go off. Those are the technical reasons not to carry it like that. Same reason why you dont carry a single action revolver (Unless they have the transfer bar system like the Rugers) with a full cylinder. The hammer is just riding on the firing pin, or in the SA revolvers, the hammer is riding on the primer.

 

[syates4]

It's not designed to be carried hammer down. Besides the fact that you'd have to cock that little hammer to fire the dang thing, if you dropped it, it could possibly go off. Those are the technical reasons not to carry it like that. Same reason why you dont carry a single action revolver (Unless they have the transfer bar system like the Rugers) with a full cylinder. The hammer is just riding on the firing pin, or in the SA revolvers, the hammer is riding on the primer.

Stating that it is designed to be carried one way or another is not a technical explanation. The part about the hammer riding on the firing pin is getting there though. Like I said, I am not familiar with the technical makeup of the 1911, that is why I was hoping for a technical explanation about why it could discharge if dropped with the hammer down. My guess would be that there is nothing preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin forward to the primer? Does the trigger not have to be pulled for the hammer to strike the firing pin?

Also, I am not clear on this part, should a 1911 be carried cocked and locked?

 

[ngcsugrad09]

Stating that it is designed to be carried one way or another is not a technical explanation. The part about the hammer riding on the firing pin is getting there though. Like I said, I am not familiar with the technical makeup of the 1911, that is why I was hoping for a technical explanation about why it could discharge if dropped with the hammer down. My guess would be that there is nothing preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin forward to the primer? Does the trigger not have to be pulled for the hammer to strike the firing pin?

Also, I am not clear on this part, should a 1911 be carried cocked and locked?

What are you not getting? There are no safeties in operation. The ONLY thing preventing the hammer from going forward is a tiny ledge on the hammer that was designed as a fail safe in the even the sear/hammer relationship was worn down/broken. Besides that, the manner in which the internal parts must get to the hammer at half cock, you are "firing" the pistol and capturing the hammer from traveling all the way down.

It seems to be that the operation of the 1911 is beyond you at this juncture. Buy a Jerry Kuhnhausen book on the 1911, take an armorers class, etc and learn about how the parts operate together and why it's a bad idea for the gun.

 

[RockRiver]

Stating that it is designed to be carried one way or another is not a technical explanation. The part about the hammer riding on the firing pin is getting there though. Like I said, I am not familiar with the technical makeup of the 1911, that is why I was hoping for a technical explanation about why it could discharge if dropped with the hammer down. My guess would be that there is nothing preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin forward to the primer? Does the trigger not have to be pulled for the hammer to strike the firing pin?

Also, I am not clear on this part, should a 1911 be carried cocked and locked?

Good guess..? I can't tell if you're serious or just being a smartass... but..

I don't understand how you can post this and not understand why it would "technically" be a bad idea to carry this way. If you lower the hammer ALL the way down on a loaded chamber, then the hammer is sitting on the firing pin. On a series 80 style gun, there is a mechanism on the slide that blocks the firing pin from advancing to the primer unless the trigger is pulled. In this case, it is a bit safer to carry with hammer down, and "technically" speaking will not fire if dropped or even if you take something and smack the back of the hammer.

HOWEVER, on series 70 style guns, like older 1911's and even newer top of the line 1911's, this mechanism is absent. This means that if the gun is dropped or bumped on the hammer, there is a great chance of the gun going off. So "technically" speaking, it's not a good idea to carry this way. Especially when you have the grip safety and thumb safety working in your favor if the gun is cocked...

If the hammer is all the way down on a 1911, the grip safety does no good. This is because the grip safety only blocks the trigger, and at this point the hammer is not engaged to the sear in any way (half-cock is different) meaning the hammer is free to move (trigger moves sear, sear releases hammer, but if the hammer is not engaged to the sear then the trigger does not matter). The thumb safety is also useless at this point, because it cant be engaged without the hammer being cocked, and even if it could, it only blocks the sear which isnt engaged at this point.

These are all the technical reasons why certain 1911's aren't safe carried hammer down.

EDIT: The best way to understand how any gun works is to look at a schematic. If you aren't able to make heads or tails of a schematic, there are animations of the actions of guns online, at least I think ive seen one for a 1911. Or, if you're comfortable doing so, take one apart and see for yourself. That's what I did anyways.

 

[jsquared]

Thanks for explaining about the safeties RR, I was wondering about the thumb safety when the hammer is down. Cleared it right up

 

[drtybykr]

 

[RockRiver]

Hey! There the videos are! Thanks drtybykr!

That has got to be the baddest CAD assembly animation ever.

 

[syates4]

THANKS RockRiver!

Thats what I was asking. So series 70 style, nothing preventing firing pin from striking primer, series 80 style firing pin should not strike primer unless trigger is pulled. I am just a guy that likes to be told why something works or doesnt work instead of being told "because" as an answer. Most of it was being as smartass though.

ngcsugrad09 - What I was not getting was a clear answer like RockRiver's.