Die adjustment and set up. HELP!

[Phrog Man]

Last year I bought a boatload of new and near new reloading gear from a guy that jumped in head over heels and didn't end up liking to load. I have 7 single stage Lee presses, a new Dillon 550B progressive press and 3 turret style Lee presses.

Its taken a year of sorting the good out, reading and learning to get the point that I am now. This past Saturday I took the reloading class in Sandy Springs and that put all the pieces together for me, except the internal optimum adjustments for the dies. I have the case length, and other prep down along with the other details, but these dies are kicking my ass.

Today I wasted brass and bullets loading up some dummy rounds and got really frustrated. I have Lee and RCBS dies in .308 and I just can't get them set up right. I wanted to start with .308 as I have plenty of nice cases and bullets and I have the most .308 rifles of all. Keeping things simple I have stayed away from the progressive presses and for now I am only focusing on the single stage presses, to learn the basics and build confidence through some fired rounds in. It seems that no matter what I do I can't find the sweet spot for the resizing die or the seating dies.

With the resizing die I make small adjustments to the die in the press and then also to the internal adjustment. The end result is a crashed case or improper sizing of the neck/ entire case. I was able to get the neck sizes right, but then the other end was improperly sized and would not slide into the case gauge or the chamber of a test rifle.

The same goes for the seating/ crimping die as I either get the proper overall length with improper seating/ crimping and the bullet fits too loose and can easily be turned, or the opposite occurs and I crash the case. I make the smallest of adjustments and it just does not work out.

I am not a mechanical dumb ass, I build precision engines on a daily basis and work with mechanical things all day, everyday. I am starting to think that these dies are not right, because I can't get any consistency, nor can I find a sweet spot for them. I was tempted to buy new dies as these are unknown and came with all the gear I got last year, but I'd rather not. I have tried a two die RCBS set and a 3 die Lee set thats pictured here, with similar results in different presses.

From the books I have read and the videos I have watched my situation simply does not respond like what I have seen in the videos. It looks straight forward, but this is a real pain. I hate to waste brass, luckily I have a lot of it. Can anyone shed some light here? What dies are pictured here exactly? One has a C3 on the die and the other has a D3, the center one doesn't say anything. The center one is a multiple piece design that floats internally which I can't find any description of in the books or videos online.

 

[BHJ]

I'll give ya $20 for em
The one on the left is a bullet seating die, the one in the center is a neck sizing die, the one on the right is a full length sizing die.
The deluxe set dead length bullet seating die does not crimp nor does it need to. they are primarily for bolt gun ammo. You have a photo of the instructions for adjustment.
Forget everything else about videos and other instruction and read the instructions that came with the dies. They are a little different (more simple) than many other products on the market.. The Lee deluxe set loads some very fine ammo. Use them with a lee press as they dont toggle over and no adjustment of the press is necessary. Very simple setup and operation.

Pics of the dies and what they do are also in the instructions. I promise you wont have to turn in your man card to read em.
My offer of $20 stands if you still cant figure it out.

 

[themayor]

If you have the opportunity start with pistol reloading. I found it much easier to get used to before moving to rifle. I'm going to be doing 308 at some point but not their yet.

 

[Clarke123]

I have never had a minutes problem with following Lee's instructions that are included in the box with the die(s). There's even a
picture of each die as well. This information is also on-line in PDF Form. That said, I'm chagrined with the pictures that you have enclosed.
With a decapping pin shown in all three dies, my first impression is that you need to call Lee and let them look at your pictures .. one of them looks strange (middle one)!
From Left to Right) they look like a Bullet Seating Die, perhaps a powder through die, and a regular FL sizing die. Only the sizing die should have
a decapping pin showing.


Another thought, if you are crushing cases: do you have some lube on the cases (lightly lube them or you will crush them!)

Call LEE, their CS are really good people.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Want to sell the Dillon?

 

[Phrog Man]

I read those instructions first... Then over and over and walked through them a step at a time. I guess I really am a dumbass! If I use the full resizer do I still need to use the neck only die? It seems like they are a bit redundant. The adjustment of these resizing dies is quite confusing, the instructions just do not cover it. Does it matter what sequence I use with the resizing dies if I decide to use both of them?

When I refer to crimp, its really not a crimp, its the seat and whatever you'd refer to the bullet retention if not using a full on crimp. I was trying to simply seat the depth of the bullet and then hold it in place, but I cannot find an adjustment sweet spot that will yield this. I find results of both extremes from too loose to too tight and I have spent hours trying it different ways. with the same results with otherwise perfectly measured and prepped cases.

Thanks for the help.. This is all I need to overcome to start throwing lead down range.

 

[Chuckdog]

The die on the left is a seating die. Adjustment varies, but this is safe to use for most any seating die. Take ready to use sized trimmed piece of your brass and place it in the shell holder. Run your ram to the top of the stroke. Insert the die with the seating insert screwed out CCW several turns. Screw the die body in until you feel it come in contact with the brass. Once it makes contact with the brass, back it out a half turn and lock it.

If it screws completely down and touches the shellholder, it's likely a dead length seat with no ability to crimp. If so, screw it till it just makes contact with the shellholder and lock it.

The center die is a neck sizing die. It can be used without case lube. It will only be useful for brass that will be used in the same bolt action rifle. No auto loaders!

With the ram at the top of the stroke, screw the die body down until it makes solid contact with the shellhholder. Lower the ram, screw the die body another full turn. This will activate the collet inside the die body to squeeze the neck only to hold the next round. This die is only useful for bolt rifles shooting the same brass.

The die on the right is a standard full length sizer. For standard steel dies (bottleneck rifle) always use case lube. Bring the ram to the top of the stroke, screw the die body down till it touches the shellholder. Lower the ram and screw the die in an additional 1/4 turn and lock it.

If using a carbide pistol sizing die, bring the ram to the top, screw the die body in till it makes contact with the shellholder, then back it up about 1/8 turn. Carbide dies can be damaged by too much pressure.

Richard Lee's book, "Modern Reloading" is an excellent manual. I highly recommend it. I hope this helps, CD.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

If I use the full resizer do I still need to use the neck only die?

no, you don't. I use a neck only sizer for some of my bolt guns....but for anything auto, a full length resize is going to ensure more reliable feeding. It's an either or situation, not both.

 

[Phrog Man]

Clarke123, I am with you.. The decapping pins realy weirded me out too, I am not convinced that this set is a complete deluxe set, or maybe they have been altered and thats why things don't add up.

No, I don't want to sell any of it... I just have a little to overcome and then I'll be off. I have taken my time, studied and have overcome the rest of it except these dies. I thought about starting with pistol ammo first as I have 15 die sets for various pistol calibers and no less than 40,000 pieces of brass all tumbled and ultrasonically cleaned.

 

[Clarke123]

If the previous post is correct about the neck-sizing die, be aware that you will initially do a full lenght resizing for bolt and semi-auto guns, then FL for semi-auto and neck for
each bolt gun, but never both FL and Neck at the same time!

The instructions are really simple, but they are also specific to the die being installed and brand of die!!!

The Lube is NECESSARY and should be very light.

BTW: we all crush a case every once in a while, and usually because we forgot to install the die correctly OR by over / under lube of a case.