Does Concealed Gun Give Cops Right to Search You?

[js415]

"Detain" and "verify" create a compound question...what I do think is OK is for a LEO to ask someone for verification of the ability to carry concealed should the LEO deem it necessary and for that citizen to politefully and respectfully comply. That's all...nothing more, nothing less.

And I disagree. It is Ok for them to ask, it is even legal for them to ask.

It is not legal for them to initiate a Tier II stop, in order for them to verify you are conducting a legal activity.

Asking questions is one of the great tools that officers have, to help conduct an investigation, or to help them figure out of you are conducting an Illegal activity. As one of my favorite Sheriffs always says, "I can ask you anything I want all day, but I don't mean you have to answer!!"

He is always telling about the folks that talk themselves into an arrest. Officers can ask, but you do not have to answer. If they have no RAS, the discussion is over.

 

[sw0596]

What Ken Ford said, yup. That is the answer to the question as simple as it can be!

 

[wozbean]

And I'm going to cease to try. I believe it can be, you don't. You're welcome to your opinion and it's clear to me theres a lot riding on you maintaining it so I'm ending my end of the conversation.

It's not my opinion. It's the law. An LEO requires RAS and PC.

 

[blakejohn]

Please show me the law where it states simply having a firearm and being seen by an officer requires you to show them you CCL. I don't believe there is such a law. You can't simply make stuff up blakejohn because it makes you feel good.

I never said there was such a law, only that there is a law that you must have a permit to carry.

ah ha, the old "guilty until proven innocent arguement" I love it. Sir, you are simply wrong. A gun owner who prints is not automatically a criminal.

Yes, it is soppossed to be innocent until proven guilty, But rarely is it ever that way. At least it seems like it isnt.

I wish you wouldn't get mad when a citizen who does not present "reasonable suspicion" stands up for himself when asked to submit to an illegal search. Again, show me the law where every gun owner who shows a firearm is asked for "papers please". It's not there.

There is a time and a place to do so and usually at the point of contact is not it.

 

[wozbean]

And I disagree. It is Ok for them to ask, it is even legal for them to ask.

It is not legal for them to initiate a Tier II stop, in order for them to verify you are conducting a legal activity.

Asking questions is one of the great tools that officers have, to help conduct an investigation, or to help them figure out of you are conducting an Illegal activity. As one of my favorite Sheriffs always says, "I can ask you anything I want all day, but I don't mean you have to answer!!"

He is always telling about the folks that talk themselves into an arrest. Officers can ask, but you do not have to answer. If they have no RAS, the discussion is over.

You are correct.

"Am I being detained?" "Am I free to go?" I've said it once and I'll say it again. The LEO isn't starting a conversation with you to pass the time. He is trying to see if you are doing anything illegal (talk themselves into a citation). Know the law make reasonable decisions and all will be fine.

@Ken Ford. You are also correct. I appreciate your service and am VERY grateful you actually know the law and use your intelligence to make good decisions. Thanks.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

And I disagree. It is Ok for them to ask, it is even legal for them to ask.

It is not legal for them to initiate a Tier II stop, in order for them to verify you are conducting a legal activity.

Asking questions is one of the great tools that officers have, to help conduct an investigation, or to help them figure out of you are conducting an Illegal activity. As one of my favorite Sheriffs always says, "I can ask you anything I want all day, but I don't mean you have to answer!!"

He is always telling about the folks that talk themselves into an arrest. Officers can ask, but you do not have to answer. If they have no RAS, the discussion is over.

I think where you and I differ the most is that I see no unecessary concession or infringement in answering the officer's questions. I've been asked or three separate occasions by LE about my carry situation. Once was due to printing while grocery shopping and reaching just a little too deep in the cooler for that freshest milk, another was in Midtown when pushing a traffic crossing button and showed under my jacket in a shoulder holster, and the third in a traffic stop during which I offered the information that I was carrying as I exited a friends vehicle after being pulled on suspicion of a stolen car (long story!). In all three events, I was asked politlely and respectfully and I offered and responded in kind. No skin off my back and LE knows I'm the good guy...nobody's rights were violated and nobody was trampled under foot. As has already been said, I just don't see the harm in answering the question.

 

[squirrelslaying101]

Why is there a big deal of showing your permit when asked. Its the flip of the card. It may take 5 minutes.... Mdog, Send me a PM when you come to Harris County. Your welcome over anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rOmiLaYu]

"Am I being detained?" "Am I free to go?" I've said it once and I'll say it again. The LEO isn't starting a conversation with you to pass the time. He is trying to see if you are doing anything illegal (talk themselves into a citation).

Or maybe he is just attempting to see if the other people he is sworn to protect are still safe...it is precisely this type of attitude you are pontificating that makes LE's job difficult.

Absolutely you can respond with "Am I being detained?" or "Am I free to go?" but why would you? If you're on the straight and narrow why not just answer the officer's questions and make his job easier? Why go out of your way to be difficult?

 

[Patronus]

Why is there a big deal of showing your permit when asked. Its the flip of the card. It may take 5 minutes.... Mdog, Send me a PM when you come to Harris County. Your welcome over anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you sir...I ain't far from there. Like to get down to Columbus every now and then. Come to think on it, I've noticed that we have more ODTers down that way lately. Maybe we need to have a lunch or something like we did in Newnan. Both the lunch and the meet-n-greet dinner we had were a blast.

 

[wozbean]

But if I am walking down the road and my gun is remotely visable and I am asked for my CCL i would hand it over because the law states I must have one. I would expect to be asked. I dont see how following the law and/or providing information thats shows I am following the law is in any way giving up my right.

I never said there was such a law, only that there is a law that you must have a permit to carry.

The way I read your original post I thought it implied that you meant following law was required (showing your permit). Sorry.

I agree the side of the road is not a place to have a full blown discussion on law but you should know what is legal and what is not. You hould then inform the offer that you believe he is in the wrong. You can even tell him you will comply but don't agree. Just don't simply accept everything he says without voicing concern. I have no issue with compliance per say, I have issue with blind compliance.