First semi-assault rifle sold to public?

[dadx3]

dadX3, that Win. 1905 looks like the oldest centerfire semi-auto rifle that used detachable mags available in a higher-than-needed-for-hunting capacity, sold to the general public. It used either 5 or 10 round mags. It might fit the definition of "assault rifle" due to that feature, even though it's basically a deer rifle, with a full length barrel.

That Remington Model 8 only had 5 round mags for the civilian market, but in the 1930s a law enforcement special production model had longer mags that held 10 or 20 rounds. I don't think that was meant to be sold to the public, and even if it "could be" purchased by the public, pretty much no individuals ever bought that rifle with those mags.

Back then there was no 'civilian market', you could buy whatever the manufacturers made just like the Thompsons and Monitors. They also used medium power cartridges, not full power rifle cartridges, similar to 'assault rifles' not using their forbearers high power cartridges(30-06, 8MM, and 7.62x54).

I think the 2 models I listed above were often used by Police and Feds, including in the take-down of Bonnie and Clyde, and other gangsters.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

No, you couldn't buy whatever the manufacturers made.
You could only buy what the dealers / jobbers/wholesalers sold to gun stores, or sold to the public.
Look though some sporting goods catalogs from the 1920s and tell me if you see any machineguns listed for sale.
Find some old copies of Stoger's Shooter's Bible-- which was first printed right after WWI. I've browsed some of them. No 1918 BARs. No Maxim machineguns. No Tommyguns.
Could you drive to the Auto-Ordnance factory and try to buy a 1921 Thompson SMG directly from the manufacturer? Sure, you could TRY. That doesn't mean they'd sell you one.
It may have been "legal" before the NFA, but it wasn't a weapon that was commonly sold to the public through normal channels of commerce.

 

[Rambler]

Go back and check your Sears catalog. You could order a Thompson from the catalog and have it shipped straight to your door for $200.00. There are several old adds showing the Thompson being used for ranch defense and home protection. That is where the price of the NFA stamp came from, they doubled the price of a Thompson. The politicians figured that would price the guns out of the public's hands.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I've seen plenty of old Sears catalogs, and Stoeger catalogs, and gun ads in magazines such as Outdoor Life and Field & Stream, and Popular Mechanics (had a surprising amount of gun stuff back in those days).
How about YOU show me some ads for full autos in such publications intended for the American public?

P.S. Yes, I agree that the $200 price of a new Thompson was the basis for the NFA. And the Auto-Ordnance Corp. didn't explicitly forbid its dealers from selling to to private citizens, although their business model was selling to law enforcement, guard companies, security officers, business owners, etc. At least one wealthy doctor in the Chicago area bought a Tommygun for his own personal use, back in the late 1920s. That gun later turned up in the hands of some criminal gang.

 

[Rambler]

Google Thompson ads and look under images. I just found the one about defending your ranch from rustlers. There were several more ads showing the Thompson to be the anti bandit gun.

 

[coach482]

Number 6 is the one of interest.


The Thompson submachine gun, more commonly known as the Tommy Gun, was one of the most revolutionary firearms ever manufactured. It let gangsters flood the dry streets of Chicago with beautiful alcohol, enabled our troops to kick ass all over the world, and actually helped our mailmen deliver our cable bills. For better or worse, it changed the way we shoot stuff. But aside from the fact that it fits perfectly into a violin case, how much do you know about it?

Here's a primer on one of the 1920s' most terrifying icons.

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1. Before it was officially called the Thompson submachine gun, it was "The Annihilator"
Because it, well, annihilated everything. It utilized a 20- to 30-round magazine that would feed ammunition directly into the gun’s chamber at a rate of roughly 600-725 rounds per minute. Another early model, known as "The Persuader," utilized a belt-feed system, which delivered 50+ rounds at the same firing rate.

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2. It had even cooler nicknames
As if its official names weren’t awesome enough, the Tommy Gun’s unofficial monikers included gems like, “The Trench Broom,” “The Chopper,” and our personal favorite, “The Chicago Organ Grinder.”


King's Academy
3. It saw action in almost every war until Vietnam
It was on the beaches of Normandy in WWII, the jungles of Cambodia during the Vietnam War, and even helped us sort things out in Korea in between. Yet, it was absent from the very war for which it was invented—WWI.


4. It completely changed the way our soldiers fought
The first ever “submachine gun,” the Thompson was invented to be small, lightweight, and deadly. It replaced the slower bolt-action rifles our soldiers had previously carried. Until the Thompson came along, a soldier’s best friend in close quarters was his bayonet.

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WW2Today
5. The first batch of “Persuaders” for WWI was ready on Armistice Day
Those Austro-Hungarians got lucky!


6. The Thompson was publicly available but sales were miserable because it cost $200
At the time (1921), a new Ford automobile cost about $400. Turns out, the only people who could afford Tommy Guns were criminals.

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Bring Me The News
7. It was marketed to police as the “Anti-Bandit Gun,” and “the safest gun to shoot in city streets”
Marketing sure has changed, hasn’t it?

8. Besides the cops, one of the Thompson’s biggest fans early on was the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
Back before the term “going postal” was a thing, the postal service routinely armed its personnel to help prevent against attacks and robberies.

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Amazon
9. The Thompson went into commercial production the same year America adopted Prohibition
Its versatility, accuracy, and astoundingly fast firing rate made it as famous an accessory to prohibition-era gangsters as a three-piece pinstripe suit and goofy accent. Those same great features also made it a favorite among police and federal agents. Unfortunately, the whole “great gun for close-quarters shootouts in the streets” thing was true for everyone—bad guys included.


10. You could walk into any Chicago hardware store and buy or rent one
This was because police didn’t immediately notice the Thompson’s popularity among Chicago’s most nefarious crime bosses. What a time to be alive!

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Trbimg
11. It was responsible for the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre
While rumors that thousands of rounds were used in the massacre were heavily circulated among the public, in reality, only 70 rounds were fired (a 50-round drum and 20-round mag, along with two shotgun blasts). Yet, so much damage was done that the coroner basically reported that the victims were ripped apart by the bullets.

(Fun Fact: Frank Gusenberg, the only member who survived the massacre long enough to make it to the hospital, when questioned by the police about who shot him, said “Nobody shot me,” despite having 14 bullet holes in his body. It’s hard not to admire his omertà.)

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These Gun Shaped Water Pipes Pack A Divisive Message

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Live Auction Group
12. The Thompson was bred to be the middle ground between a standard pistol and a full-on machine gun
It came with pistol grips and took standard .45 ACP bullets, but fired with the ferocity and accuracy of a machine gun. And, just like a machine gun, it scared the crap out of anyone who it was aimed at.

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Amazon
13. You’ll probably never own one
If you thought the $200 price tag for one of these bad boys in the 1920s was bad, you should hear what real ones go for these days. For a real, fully-automatic M1 Thompson, you can expect to pay anywhere from $15,000 to $30,000, depending on condition, year, and documentation. And that’s before all the insane taxes and paperwork to be paid and filed with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (Thanks NFA Act!).


Maxwell Barna is a contributor at Supercompressor, and he believes you, but his Tommy gun don’t! Follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

 

[Rambler]

From a Popular Mechanics story on the history of the Thompson: With the great war over, Thompson took his gun to the civilian market, selling it as an "anti-bandit gun." Thompson travelled tirelessly to promote and publicize his gun and its capabilities.

 

[sambo77]

Couldn't one argue the old lever guns could be considered an "assault rifle"? It was used by military as well as civilians.

Edit didn't read where you said semi auto. I'd go with the 1905 for semi auto.

 

[sambo77]

From a Popular Mechanics story on the history of the Thompson: With the great war over, Thompson took his gun to the civilian market, selling it as an "anti-bandit gun." Thompson travelled tirelessly to promote and publicize his gun and its capabilities.

 

[sambo77]

You could in fact also order FA rifles such as the BAR and thompson prior to 1934. Just because the local hardware store didn't have them doesn't mean you couldn't have one ordered in or order one yourself.