How NOT to Clean Your Gun

[BHPSteel]

That's why my mother drilled into me the first rule of firearm safety. Always presume the weapon is loaded then check and clear before handling. I was taught firearm safety before anything really. Back then it was a different time and guns were everywhere.

I think this is part of the solution, but people who are around guns all the time, and use them regularly have NDs all the time. How many stories have we heard of beat cops blowing a hole in their hand because they were taking down their Glocks for cleaning? I know it doesn't seem obvious, but there are far more guns per capita in the hands of the public than there were in the 1960's, and more individuals owning guns - particularly handguns, and so intuitively, I'd expect there would be more cases of people experiencing what I'd call 'operational' NDs and other events like Quantavious fooling with a gun on TikTok and blowing his brains out.

...
I think first time buyers should be required to take a in depth firearms safety course. If that ruffles some feathers then so be it but there are entirely to many idiots with guns out there.

I understand where people are coming from when this kind of suggestion is made, but frankly, beyond being told "don't touch that curved thing unless you want the gun to go bang' and 'don't point it at people', I'm not sure that mandatory "safety" training really adds much value, and it's just one more barrier to people exercising their 2A rights. Highly trained people experience NDs and break safety rules from time to time too.

Edit: And I say this as a qualified NRA Instructor.

 

[BHPSteel]

Question:
If the act of cleaning a firearm that you thought was unloaded --but due to your sloppy and forgetful way of checking it, it actually remained chamber-loaded--

is a very common scenario, can it be considered criminal negligence even without actually putting a bullet in some innocent person?

Do cases like this open the door to prosecutions for improperly handling a loaded firearm, even when the gun doesn't go off --or it goes off but does not cause personal injury to someone?

I think that there's always the possibility that someone could be at risk in that situation. The obvious example might be handing a firearm to a police officer at a stop, who finds the firearm loaded despite the individual "promising" it's unloaded.

But of course, that's not how police offers take firearms from individuals at stops, because procedurally, there are many other, greater risks present if that's how you disarm a detainee.

I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, but I'd think that in the scenario you present, a key element of a successful prosecution would be to determine cui malo - who actually suffered as a result of that claimed negligence?

 

[User170512]

A Gwinnett County man was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to eight months in jail for accidental shooting and killing his neighbor while cleaning his gun in his apartment, officials said.

Maxwell Mathews Williamson, 25, of Duluth, was also found guilty of reckless conduct, Gwinnett District Attorney Patsy Austin-Gatson said in a statement. Involuntary manslaughter and reckless conduct are both misdemeanors.

View attachment 8072156

Gwinnett County man convicted for killing sleeping mother while cleaning gun

A Duluth man has been sentenced to jail for the fatal shooting of his next-door neighbor, 36-year-old Carlether Foley, after his handgun discharged through a shared apartment wall.

www.fox5atlanta.com

Hard to even imagine the panic at having an ND while cleaning a gun and hearing screaming coming through the apartment walls.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Shot went through the woman's head while she was sleeping-- there might not have been a sound coming from the other side of that wall. Not even the thump of a body to the floor because she was already napping on the sofa or bed or whatever.

The article says the guy left a note on her door I would assume that he also knocked on her door and tried to speak with her in person, but hearing no answer assumed the apartment was empty at the moment and left a note instead --like you might leave a note on the windshield of a parked car that you back into the Walmart parking lot.

 

[aFarewellToKings]

I think that there's always the possibility that someone could be at risk in that situation. The obvious example might be handing a firearm to a police officer at a stop, who finds the firearm loaded despite the individual "promising" it's unloaded.

But of course, that's not how police offers take firearms from individuals at stops, because procedurally, there are many other, greater risks present if that's how you disarm a detainee.

I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, but I'd think that in the scenario you present, a key element of a successful prosecution would be to determine cui malo - who actually suffered as a result of that claimed negligence?

Too bad there's not a lawyer around who could answer the question.

 

[Ken Ford]

Question:
If the act of cleaning a firearm that you thought was unloaded --but due to your sloppy and forgetful way of checking it, it actually remained chamber-loaded--

is a very common scenario, can it be considered criminal negligence even without actually putting a bullet in some innocent person?

Do cases like this open the door to prosecutions for improperly handling a loaded firearm, even when the gun doesn't go off --or it goes off but does not cause personal injury to someone?

Criminal negligence requires a victim, at least property damage, or monetary.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

I doubt he was "cleaning the gun" was probably simply goofing off playing with it. Claiming you were "cleaning" the gun vs just goofing around is a huge legal difference. Lawyers know this, well good ones do.

 

[Timber Cruiser]

And he's back on spewing his crap about the election. Dude is a loser.

I thought the same thing. No humility whatsoever. I despise Hollywood.

 

[greg vess]

I doubt he was "cleaning the gun" was probably simply goofing off playing with it. Claiming you were "cleaning" the gun vs just goofing around is a huge legal difference. Lawyers know this, well good ones do.

Yeah " cleaning it and it went off " seems to be the go to defense in a gun mishaps.

 

[greg vess]

And he's back on spewing his crap about the election. Dude is a loser.

Who are you talking about?