illegal to do a trade at an FFL?

[palmettomoon]

I've had people offer to sell me something when the local FFL turned it down, but since I wasn't interested I said, "No thanks."

Now, on the other hand, I've been standing right there when a customer brought something in and with a nod to the manager he knew I'd be standing by to purchase the item from the shop if they struck a deal. I've always been fairly treated (they'd ask about 5% upcharge on what they paid for it) and I've been very happy to have been standing there at that time.

 

[BanjoJohn]

I've made a trade with the FFL owner in the garage adjacent to his shop. No paperwork, no hassle. Gave him my gun, took his gun... off we went back to the shop to solve the problems of the world with the other customers.

The fact that a gun comes into the FFL location does not require them to take it into their books. If it did, then every CCW holder would have to check their guns into the books of the FFL upon entering the shop. We know this does not happen and is not required.

As long as all the proper laws are followed regarding transactions between private individuals, it can take place anywhere that would not otherwise be prohibited.

I don't think my FFL would do any deals himself without paperwork. He said if he never saw another ATF agent he would be more than happy.

 

[Weagle]

No issue at my LGS

Having run several large gun shops I can tell you that FFLs are put through the ringer over various issues by the ATF and are responsible to properly log all firearms transactions. A dealer's premise isn't the same as a gun show. Much like dealing with the IRS, the answer to the question may change depending on which agent you are dealing with and how they approach the question. As a dealer, if my customers are discretely trading in the parking lot and not disrupting my business or involving any of my employees, then I'm not going to play detective. However, if they are openly and obviously trading in my store then I'm going to ask that they trade elsewhere. If they ask me if it's OK, then they have involved me in the transaction, and I'm going to ask them to trade elsewhere. If my parking lot is used as a regular trading place and people come on a public forum and start naming my store as a place where private trades can take place then you can see where that might throw up a red flag to the ATF and I would start policing my parking lot. Even if something is legal, if it throws up a red flag to the ATF and triggers a visit, it can be costly in terms of time and effort to show that you are in compliance. Just like dealing with the IRS, its up to you to prove you are in compliance. You are not 'presumed innocent'. If their FFL gets suspended/canceled then the store and it's employees have lost their livelihood, so when dealing with any gray area a smart FFL will error on the side of caution.

One other side note. The transaction itself is in not illegal, as individuals sales are or course good to go. The gray area is whether or not the FFL is in compliance with ATF regulations.

 

[BanjoJohn]

Having run several large gun shops I can tell you that FFLs are put through the ringer over various issues by the ATF and are responsible to properly log all firearms transactions. A dealer's premise isn't the same as a gun show. Much like dealing with the IRS, the answer to the question may change depending on which agent you are dealing with and how they approach the question. As a dealer, if my customers are discretely trading in the parking lot and not disrupting my business or involving any of my employees, then I'm not going to play detective. However, if they are openly and obviously trading in my store then I'm going to ask that they trade elsewhere. If they ask me if it's OK, then they have involved me in the transaction, and I'm going to ask them to trade elsewhere. If my parking lot is used as a regular trading place and people come on a public forum and start naming my store as a place where private trades can take place then you can see where that might throw up a red flag to the ATF and I would start policing my parking lot. Even if something is legal, if it throws up a red flag to the ATF and triggers a visit, it can be costly in terms of time and effort to show that you are in compliance. Just like dealing with the IRS, its up to you to prove you are in compliance. You are not 'presumed innocent'. If their FFL gets suspended/canceled then the store and it's employees have lost their livelihood, so when dealing with any gray area a smart FFL will error on the side of caution.

One other side note. The transaction itself is in not illegal, as individuals sales are or course good to go. The gray area is whether or not the FFL is in compliance with ATF regulations.

We don't want no muddy water nowhere near a FFL dealer.

Most government employees are slaves to their employer.
They would much rather harass a working class man that will pay $$ in lieu of resisting, instead of going after real criminals, such as Eric Holder.

 

[gh1950]

Now, on the other hand, I've been standing right there when a customer brought something in and with a nod to the manager he knew I'd be standing by to purchase the item from the shop if they struck a deal. I've always been fairly treated (they'd ask about 5% upcharge on what they paid for it) and I've been very happy to have been standing there at that time.

I have purchased several guns like that back when I hung out more in the LGS. In fact the owner of this LGS would happily take 5% and encourage you to buy the gun.

I didn't mind paying the "service charge" because I felt like I also received a professional appraisal on what the FMV was.

 

[BanjoJohn]

I have purchased several guns like that back when I hung out more in the LGS. In fact the owner of this LGS would happily take 5% and encourage you to buy the gun.

I didn't mind paying the "service charge" because I felt like I also received a professional appraisal on what the FMV was.

But he did run the firearm through his system, and filled out the appropriate paperwork? Yes?

 

[gh1950]

But he did run the firearm through his system, and filled out the appropriate paperwork? Yes?

I don't think so, at least I don't remember it. The gun would be laying on the counter or behind it, I'd tell him I'd give him XXX dollars, and money and gun would change hands.

As far as I can remember he never put it on his "book" so he didn't have to account for it.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Maybe the gun store employee was confused. ATF has a rule, I think (don't ask me to cite it) that says an FFL dealer must not sell or trade guns FROM HIS PERSONAL COLLECTION on the FFL-licensed business premises.
That has always been a big problem with "basement FFL" or "pocket FFL" dealers who would only keep paperwork on half their deals, and the other half would be off-the-books and said to be "my personal collection-- not business inventory."

Anyhow, I often meet folks at a SHOOTING RANGE where they can test my gun before they buy it, and I often want to test-fire THEIR gun before I buy or trade into it, too. (Especially semi-autos. I don't want to buy somebody's jam-o-matic.)

 

[BanjoJohn]

I don't think so, at least I don't remember it. The gun would be laying on the counter or behind it, I'd tell him I'd give him XXX dollars, and money and gun would change hands.

As far as I can remember he never put it on his "book" so he didn't have to account for it.

I don't care to frequent places such as that. I wouldn't want to get caught up with the ATF's questions and answers.

 

[inkdaddy]

B S...BS......BS.........another "Fake News" story.......It was NOT....its is NOT!