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Is "knockdown power" real?

GAgunLAWbooklet

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The Hen that laid the Golden Legos
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I keep hearing about how certain bullets have more "knockdown power" than others.
Some say it comes from big, heavy bullets. 200 grain 10mm or .45's or even .44 magnums.
Some say "knockdown power" comes from kinetic energy, which is based on mass x velocity x velocity again (velocity is squared, so it counts MUCH MORE than bullet weight).

Here's my little experiment:


I took some 7" to 8" diameter pine logs, freshly cut from pine trees I just felled.
I cut a few of these logs into 5 foot lengths and stood them on their ends on a concrete slab.
Any log that didn't have a nice clean and square cut on the end, or for some other reason didn't balance well, was rejected.

Then I shot these logs with a variety of guns. 22LR, .38 spl, 9mm, .40, and .45. I used various bullet weights, including 9mm 124 gr. +P, and 230 grain Gold Dot HP from the .45.
I shot the logs with 12 and 20 gauge shotguns at point-blank range (10 feet), using small birdshot, then buckshot (#2 for the 20 ga; but 00 buck for the 12-bore). And I shot the logs with slugs.

Nothing exited any log. Every bullet or slug or pellet was FULLY contained by the log, and all hits were near the center of the log as it faced me. No bullets glanced off or ricocheted, potentially spending their energy on some secondary target. All kinetic energy was absorbed by the logs, each free-standing and balanced on its 7" or 8" diameter base.

RESULT: No handgun bullets even made any log sway or wobble. The logs just stood there and absorbed all the hits without moving.

The 20 gauge shotgun made the logs sway a little, but it didn't make any log fall over.

The 12 gauge shotgun with slugs and buckshot pushed the logs enough that one time, one of them fell over, but the rest did not, and the one log that fell actually rocked back and then recovered and rocked forward, and ultimately fell to the ground FORWARD, toward me. That log, hit with a 12 gauge slug, was the only one to fall down.


No logs were knocked over backward.

All of these logs were easily pushed over by hand, with just a slap of an open palm, or a quick jab punch, done without drawing your fist back very far. These logs could also be knocked over by throwing bricks or grapefruit-sized rocks at them.

BOTTOM LINE: Don't count on "kinetic energy" numbers to translate to literal man-shoving abilities, when it comes to bullets. A handgun cartridge that generates "400 foot-pounds" of energy will NOT lift a 400 lb. man off his feet, not even an inch, nor a 200 lb. man. Not even a 50-lb coyote. Maybe a 10-lb groundhog. Maybe.
 
Oh, if I'm ever attacked by logs, I'll have just the right weapon to defend myself with !

chainsaw dude.jpg
 
I am sure everyone has an opinion but my thoughts are that its impossible to rate Knock down power.
first it depends on what the projectile hits, second if the projectile exits the body then any remaining energy is wasted and reduces knock down.
to measure knock down I would think you would need something that the projectile could not penetrate and then measure how far rear ward it would move to compare cartridges.
IF you did this then I still don't see how that would apply to a human being?
 
I have noticed that men shot with 30 caliber bullets like 9mm and 7.62 x 51, just like logs, react exactly the same...........Wait a minute, actually they react completely different. When it comes to killing.....caliber/weight/velocity all matter, they always have.

If this thread was started to discuss the efficiency of logging with a firearm.........that's OK I guess.
If is was started to start a slap fight between those who are wedded to a certain caliber handgun.......that's OK I guess.
If it was started to forward a belief that caliber/velocity are irrelevant when it comes to self defense.......Then it's stupid.

Where does a man go to "keep hearing about knockdown power" anyway?
 
Flashover16, it's really simple.
If a bullet doesn't have enough pushing ability to push over log balanced on its end, would you expect it to push over a 200-pound man who is facing you and fighting you or shooting at you?
No. Of course not.

Now, the man you shoot might fall down. If you damage his spine or some other nerve system. If you shatter the bones his body needs to remain upright.

The man you shoot may fall over for lack of blood pressure, if your bullet rips apart a major artery, or punctures his heart.

The man you shoot may JUMP instictively upon feeling the bullet hit him.

But as for the 400 foot/lbs of kinetic energy "knocking him over" with sheer force? Nope.
The test with the logs should prove that to you.
 
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