If anyone thinks that the caliber of the handgun used had anything to do with why that guy dropped like a rock, then you might be short a chromosome.
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Is "knockdown power" real?
- Thread starter GAgunLAWbooklet
- Start date
lol @ good thing he's got those goggles on
I bow to your superior intellect mtdawg169. I believe knockdown power is what I saw in the video. That punk in the video didn't crumble to the floor, he fell backwards dead on arrival. That is considered to be knockdown power in case you need a definition.
Debatable.. He definitely took one to the spine or severed a spinal cord. I think his momentum dropped him that way, just like falling a tree. He clearly had a CNS deficit and then
good night nurse.....
20 years of study and post mortem examination have proven knockdown power is a fallacy. Handguns in general have proven to be less than ideal for fast incapacitation of a threat. And the caliber wars are over. People just don't fall over dead because they were hit with a 45. What you observed was almost certainly a cranial or spinal hit. Shot placement wins over caliber every time.
ECJ, do you appreciate the difference between "knockdown power" and "combat effectiveness" ?
In this thread, we're talking about knockdown power that comes from the momentum of a bullet pushing the target.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would knock somebody right off their chair, if they were shot while seated.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would put a man flat on his back, even if he were wearing body armor that stopped the bullet.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would deliver a stunning and temporarily disabling blow, aside from any other effect such as destruction of body organs, bleeding, nerve system damage, etc.
The 'effectiveness' of a bullet is another discussion for another thread.
(P.S. As Massad Ayoob famously observed, if I jab a needle in your butt cheek unexpectedly, you will jump. That doesn't mean the force of the needle lifted you. You reacted to the stimulus by jumping away. That's common, and hunters see that when shooting game all the time.)
In this thread, we're talking about knockdown power that comes from the momentum of a bullet pushing the target.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would knock somebody right off their chair, if they were shot while seated.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would put a man flat on his back, even if he were wearing body armor that stopped the bullet.
The kind of "knockdown power" that would deliver a stunning and temporarily disabling blow, aside from any other effect such as destruction of body organs, bleeding, nerve system damage, etc.
The 'effectiveness' of a bullet is another discussion for another thread.
(P.S. As Massad Ayoob famously observed, if I jab a needle in your butt cheek unexpectedly, you will jump. That doesn't mean the force of the needle lifted you. You reacted to the stimulus by jumping away. That's common, and hunters see that when shooting game all the time.)
to be fair different Calibers do carry more kinetic force. If I had to absorb the power transfered into a metal plate, I'd rather it be a .380 than a 50 cal. If that power gets dumped in a body, it may cause extra damage resulting in a quicker demise. I just picked up 135 grain 10mm traveling 1600 fps. If you do not believe that this will cause better "stopping power" then we should all carry .380 ball ammo. I believe there should be a different name for stopping power. Maybe "combat effectiveness" or "secondary damage" Like you suggested. yes I know a 380 in the heart is better than a 10mm in the wall.
I know when you shoot metal plates with a 10mm, there's a very real difference in how they go down compared to a lot of other calibers.
It will certainly knock down the plates with authority and it's clearly seen.
It will certainly knock down the plates with authority and it's clearly seen.
My mistake here has been the accepted definition of knockdown power. I was using combat effectivness and knockdown power as one in the same. I generalized knockdown power to be the ability to drop someone in their tracks. By definition there is no handheld firearm that has knockdown power. If it did have knockdown power the user would be the victim of the knockdown power.
With smallarms caliber bullets there is no combination of weight and speed to cause a 100lb log to be lifted and blasted backwards. With enough weight it's no longer a smallarms caliber more like an artellery shell. With enough speed the bullet passes through before the energy can be transferred.
No one can argue that the POS in the pawn shop was dropped in his tracks, he went down and back.
With smallarms caliber bullets there is no combination of weight and speed to cause a 100lb log to be lifted and blasted backwards. With enough weight it's no longer a smallarms caliber more like an artellery shell. With enough speed the bullet passes through before the energy can be transferred.
No one can argue that the POS in the pawn shop was dropped in his tracks, he went down and back.
