Item Relisted! FS 300 blk NOT SBR

[NEJ-ESQ]

Except an AR pistol is not a 'handgun' by the ATF definition, it is a 'firearm', as the original design was not for one hand operation.
That said, I don't even have an AFG on my AR pistol and the ATF could change it's determination without notice.

The ATF definition of a handgun isn't what actually counts from a legal perspective- what counts is the designation of the firearm itself. If the AR lower is designated as a pistol receiver, then it is indeed legally a pistol and therefore no VFG may be used. (I am aware that there may be no designation to homebrew AR lowers as either pistol or rifle until the firearm is transferred from the maker, and it could be an interesting discussion as to whether the VFG was in fact illegally attached, but one I would likely get paid to have with a prosecutor or jury should someone decide to put a VFG on a short-barrelled AR with a Sig-brace and get burned by law enforcement.)

 

[Radar363]

The ATF definition of a handgun isn't what actually counts from a legal perspective- what counts is the designation of the firearm itself. If the AR lower is designated as a pistol receiver, then it is indeed legally a pistol and therefore no VFG may be used. (I am aware that there may be no designation to homebrew AR lowers as either pistol or rifle until the firearm is transferred from the maker, and it could be an interesting discussion as to whether the VFG was in fact illegally attached, but one I would likely get paid to have with a prosecutor or jury should someone decide to put a VFG on a short-barrelled AR with a Sig-brace and get burned by law enforcement.)

Then you should give Franklin Armory a call and offer your legal services...
https://www.franklinarmory.com/coll...cts/franklin-armory-11-5-xo-26-upper-assembly

 

[NEJ-ESQ]

Then you should give Franklin Armory a call and offer your legal services...
https://www.franklinarmory.com/coll...cts/franklin-armory-11-5-xo-26-upper-assembly

View attachment 1281495

Did you read the page or just look at the picture? They cover themselves with the "***ALL NFA RULES APPLY***" language at the bottom and their product doesn't even include the VFG that's in the pic. You can't (correctly) assume that because you see a company selling something that you can legally possess it by virtue of the fact that they are selling it. It's your responsibility to educate yourself on the law and possession of firearms and an attorney (that you retain) is your safest bet for that. Even without an attorney you can review federal regulations: 18 USC 922 ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 ), 26 USC 53 ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/subtitle-E/chapter-53 ), Public Law 90-618 ( http://www.keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm ) and Public Law 99-308 ( https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49 ). Other federal regs apply in some cases, but those are the big ones. For Georgia specific laws, Georgia Carry does a fantastic job of providing easy to understand information that is relevant and current- ( http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgias-carry-laws-explained/frequently-asked-questions/ ). What you absolutely CAN'T do is rely on someone (even someone claiming to be a lawyer like I am) to provide you with information that you don't verify but do count on to keep you out of jail.

All that said, there are areas on the Franklin site that do clearly show VFG's on AR pistols which surprised me and made me want to research further. Upon some more digging, I came up with this site from an attorney out of Virginia on exactly the point we've been talking about- https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/ The pertinent part of his web page is the actual ATF letter from July 18, 2011, that clarifies that, contrary to the blanket statement I had given regarding no VFG's on non-NFA AR pistols ever, there are indeed times when it is legal (and those specifics are spelled out in the letter). I apologize for any confusion my statements may have given, though I still strongly caution that folks find out for themselves (and back up that information in writing) before proceeding to add anything that is questionable to a firearm.

 

[PatchLMCI]

Did you read the page or just look at the picture? They cover themselves with the "***ALL NFA RULES APPLY***" language at the bottom and their product doesn't even include the VFG that's in the pic. You can't (correctly) assume that because you see a company selling something that you can legally possess it by virtue of the fact that they are selling it. It's your responsibility to educate yourself on the law and possession of firearms and an attorney (that you retain) is your safest bet for that. Even without an attorney you can review federal regulations: 18 USC 922 ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 ), 26 USC 53 ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/subtitle-E/chapter-53 ), Public Law 90-618 ( http://www.keepandbeararms.com/laws/gca68.htm ) and Public Law 99-308 ( https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49 ). Other federal regs apply in some cases, but those are the big ones. For Georgia specific laws, Georgia Carry does a fantastic job of providing easy to understand information that is relevant and current- ( http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgias-carry-laws-explained/frequently-asked-questions/ ). What you absolutely CAN'T do is rely on someone (even someone claiming to be a lawyer like I am) to provide you with information that you don't verify but do count on to keep you out of jail.

All that said, there are areas on the Franklin site that do clearly show VFG's on AR pistols which surprised me and made me want to research further. Upon some more digging, I came up with this site from an attorney out of Virginia on exactly the point we've been talking about- https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/ The pertinent part of his web page is the actual ATF letter from July 18, 2011, that clarifies that, contrary to the blanket statement I had given regarding no VFG's on non-NFA AR pistols ever, there are indeed times when it is legal (and those specifics are spelled out in the letter). I apologize for any confusion my statements may have given, though I still strongly caution that folks find out for themselves (and back up that information in writing) before proceeding to add anything that is questionable to a firearm.

Once a "handgun" or "pistol" is over 26" in overall length it is no longer classified as such and falls into the "Firearm" classification which is not subject to NFA much like the mossberg shock wave that was just released with a 14" barrel, it is not a SBS because it is greater than 26" overall.

 

[NEJ-ESQ]

Once a "handgun" or "pistol" is over 26" in overall length it is no longer classified as such and falls into the "Firearm" classification which is not subject to NFA much like the mossberg shock wave that was just released with a 14" barrel, it is not a SBS because it is greater than 26" overall.

Be careful with that though- the original designation of the receiver makes a HUGE difference as to the legality of something like the Shockwave 12 gauge. Had it been a regular 590 "shotgun", registered as such somewhere, and then shortened to the Shockwave format, it actually could possibly be considered a SBS, which is why they used virgin receivers. It doesn't make practical sense, but it is, as of now, the law.

 

[wilky321]

That's not how it works. The overall length has nothing to do with it. In mi at least the barrel it self has to be 16" or more. If u have a 30" long ar with a 14.5" barrel it's still a sbr unless the flash hider is pinned and welded. That would be like having a 10 inch barrel on an ar that would come in at like 26.5" there's no way that is a rifle.

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[PatchLMCI]

That's not how it works. The overall length has nothing to do with it. In mi at least the barrel it self has to be 16" or more. If u have a 30" long ar with a 14.5" barrel it's still a sbr unless the flash hider is pinned and welded. That would be like having a 10 inch barrel on an ar that would come in at like 26.5" there's no way that is a rifle.

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Being as this forum is based in Georgia we are not taking into account other state's laws, only Georgia's and Federal laws. Federal law states a pistol over 26" in total length is no longer a "pistol" but a "firearm" and may have a vertical fore grip attached to it simple as that. There are a plethora of BAFTE opinion letters out there stating such.

Welcome to the ODT

 

[wilky321]

Yea that makes more sense now lol I just know in Michigan they care about barrel length nothing about Georgia

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[PatchLMCI]

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