Newbie questions

[bwsmith]

Sorry for the newbie questions, I just have a couple quick questions. I am thinking of trying my hand at reloading 308. I am trying to keep the questions short and concise so I don't get a "try Google" answer

1. Basic list of required equipment: Press, dies, etc.
2. Good starter press
3. Are presses mounted to a table?
4. About how much time per round to handload?
5. Any random tips?

I know Midway sells a ton of reloading stuff, but I don't know where to start.

 

[flyingfrog509]

Honesty try to get with someone who reloads already and watch and learn. I read all the books but still learned more the first time I watched someone. Still read a few books though.

1. Most basic...Lee hand loader. More realistic, Press, Die set, Caliper, Scale, Trimmer, Primer pocket cleaner, & I forget what they call the tool that chamfers the mouth of the case. Eventually a tumbler too. Oh yea boxes and trays.
2. I Loaded my first .308 loads on a cheap lee press, just the open kind. Eventually I'd say one of the "O" style ones.
3. Yes. (but you can be slick and make a platfore that slides in and out so you have a work bench when not reloading) or heck I actually clamped mine to the kitchen table for a while. (wife not to happy with that)
4. I've never timed it. Take your time, it isn't worth rushing and making a mistake. Mistakes like double loading powder can be life threating. Once you get everything dialed in I'd say it isn't to hard to load 100 rounds in an hour or more. I usually do it in stages not all at once. The kids deprime and check for damage. Tumble, then the kids clean the media out and sort into boxes. Size one day. Another day prime. Then they might sit for who knows how long. Then all that is left is powder & bullet seating.
5. Start with one caliber, get it down then move on. Find others that load, it really helps when developing a load to swap bullets and powder with others so your not buying a pound of powder just to try a load or buying 100 bullets just to find out the gun doesn't like them. (and the list goes on)

BTW: I'm fairly new at this too so don't go on my word as gosple!

 

[Petro_58]

Perhaps a little reading in the Reloading Forum here first. Some or most all of your questions are already answered. Good information here:

http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/sh...-exchange-for-some-reloading-knowledge./page2

Read some more,
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=33

Ask more questions!

 

[RamRoddoc]

1. Basic list of required equipment: Press, dies, etc.
2. Good starter press
3. Are presses mounted to a table?
4. About how much time per round to handload?
5. Any random tips?

(1): A decent O frame press, carbide dies, magnetic dampened scale, powder measure, priming system, vibratory case cleaner-media/polish, loading blocks, case lube-spray on, primer flip tray, case trimmer, decent caliper, chamfering hand tool, and perhaps for military brass a primer pocket swager.

(2): For the coin Lee is hard to beat and they make starter kits that will save you some cash.

(3): Presses should be mounted to a heavy sturdy table-drilled and bolted, the table can and should be secured to the wall.

(4): Time? As much as you need to insure total safety. This is not a activity to be rushed.

(5): Tips, petro_58 linked to a reply from an earlier request for reloading information. I hope it helps. The NRA has classes for reloaders and I would encourage you to get signed up for one.

 

[Petro_58]

Originally posted by RamRodDoc:

1. Basic list of required equipment: Press, dies, etc.
2. Good starter press
3. Are presses mounted to a table?
4. About how much time per round to handload?
5. Any random tips?

(1): A decent O frame press, carbide dies, magnetic dampened scale, powder measure, priming system, vibratory case cleaner-media/polish, loading blocks, case lube-spray on, primer flip tray, case trimmer, decent caliper, chamfering hand tool, and perhaps for military brass a primer pocket swager.

(2): For the coin Lee is hard to beat and they make starter kits that will save you some cash.
(A) Single Stage Press: One single die mounted in the press, performs 1 or more functions with one throw of the handle.

(B) Turret Press: Can mount Multiple Dies in the Turret. Usually 3-6 holes for dies. Handy if you get one that has easily removable turrets. You can purchase extra turrets and set your dies up per each caliber and change turrets depending on said caliber to be loaded. You Manually move the turret to the die that provides the function of the step you are performing.

(C) Progressive Press : Very similar to the Turret Press. Multiple dies in the Turret, and with each throw of the handle the turret automatically advances the dies and cartridge through the Progressive (steps) of loading the cartridge.

(3): Presses should be mounted to a heavy sturdy table-drilled and bolted, the table can and should be secured to the wall.

(4): Time? As much as you need to insure total safety. This is not a activity to be rushed.

(5): Tips, petro_58 linked to a reply from an earlier request for reloading information. I hope it helps. The NRA has classes for reloaders and I would encourage you to get signed up for one.

Now on to reloading pearls:

I think Chuck dog rightly suggest for a newbie starting out with a single stage press. Your initial cost will be less and if and when you decide to move on to a progressive press you can still use it and the supporting accessories. I still do all my rifle reloading with a single stage O frame press. I shoot a lot of pistol ammo and a progressive just is a much more efficient but more complicated method of reloading. You can get plenty of recommendations of types of presses, powder measures, components etc. here at the ODT.

The easiest cartridge type to reload is straight walled pistol type. Necked brass typically takes an extra step to lube the brass prior to sizing in order to prevent stuck cartridges. The whole process is fairly simple and if you can change your own spark plugs then you should be able to reload you own ammo.

To get started you will need a decent bench to mount your press and if able then secure it to the wall. If you have kids, try to keep this an off limits (lock and key) area. A good press then can be mounted and secured. A good lighting source is necessary and area should be away from flame or fire.

You will need a basic reloading manual that does just that. Most detailed reloading data can be found from the powder manufacturer. Here is a good basic manual that I still use today. This is a very good beginner’s book and will help you get started. http://www.amazon.com/Metallic-Cartr...tag=dogpile-20

First step is case preparation:

New brass of same manufacture can be used typically as is. I do check the lengths of a few to spot check it for QC and if all is Gucci then use it as is. Some will trim the necks so all the brass is as close to uniform as possible and this is commonly done on previously fired brass that has stretched from repeated firings. If you have exceeded overall length more than once beware that as the neck length grows, the brass thins and may require repeated trimmings that will eventually lead to brass failure. This is more of a problem with rifle brass and the hotter the round the more it becomes an issue (22-250, 220 Swift etc.). Now the whole reason many reload is to save a bit of coin that can allow more shooting. So, used brass is a great way to save money. For rifle I keep head stamps and lot numbers the same as variants will have thinner or thicker cases that can and has led to excessive chamber pressures for some reloaders. Military brass is notably thicker and same loads in this brass can raise pressures that are ok for other makes of brass. For my pistols more often than not, I mix it up as the pressures are a lot less and it doesn't seem to be an issue.
The old fired brass should be cleaned and a vibratory cleaner has worked best for me. I use crushed walnut hull media and a liquid cleaner added to the media. Don't overload your vibratory cleaner or it will die a slow death. I measure out the number of brass in an old coffee can to keep within the recommended "round count" that the maker recommends as max. After clean, I inspect the brass for cracks, splits, bulges or other defect that mandates discarding. I do pick up range brass and much of it is once fired but I do occasionally find some that a reloader has pretty much used it up. Any further reloading would incur a risk to firearm and self. Range brass never gets maximum loads and I save factory data recommended hot loads for new or maybe my own once fired factory brass.

Once you have your brass ready-new is ready for priming. Fired brass needs to decapped, resized and primed. I have a hand primer that is very easy to use and you can prime brass while watching T.V. Most presses today have a priming feature and you may not need a hand primer press. If it has this feature make sure it's functional or you purchase the accessories needed to make it so if it's what you will use to prime your cases.

You will need a set of dies and these come in different flavors. A whole thread could be devoted to this alone. But a key thing is that carbide dies typically rule but I have had good results with the Lee collet dies too. Get a good understanding of what each die does and most have instructions on basic setup included.

You will need a powder measure that meters the type of powder you plan to use. Some work great with larger size powders (actual size of each particle of powder) but fail with small ball type powders. When you figure out what caliber and what type of powder you will attempt to use then just post a thread on recommendations for a measure or appropriate powder. Some folks just use a powder scoop-measure and it works well for them. Powder measures come with some dies or you can buy or make your own. I have used old cartridges for a field expedient measure. Although I prefer throwing a handle on a decent measure to charge a case. Most are very accurate to a 1/10th of a grain.

You must have an accurate powder scales. Try to get one that is magnetically dampened so it stabilizes quickly. You can weigh every charge and I do this on some rifle loads. But mostly it is just a safety check to make sure my measure is metering correctly or when making powder adjustments.

After getting the powder sorted out and in the case then seat your bullet. Some dies come with different screw in seaters for round nose or flat nose bullets. You will need to measure the overall cartridge length (OAL) to insure at minimum it meets the standard guidelines. However some rounds and even some guns have an optimal OAL that they prefer for optimal function. For instance .45 ACP has an optimal understood OAL 1.26" for 230 grain FMJ. I have an old caliper/dial type that I only use when the battery goes out of my General English/metric LCD caliper measure. If you have a particular brand of ammo that works really well with your gun then copy the OAL from it and it may work as well as bullet weight.

Now the final step the crimp. Two common basic types are the taper (mostly semi-auto pistol) and rolled crimp (seen commonly in heavy recoiling magnum revolvers and used in typically cannlure bullets). I always double check the OAL after crimping initially until I'm satisfied it is good to go. Don't over crimp as it increases pressure and distorts the bullet body.

Other things that really you should get for reloading:
Reloading blocks
Bullet puller (kinetic types are cheap and used for multiple round types)
Trimmer for rifle brass and hand chamfering tool
Primer pocket swager if you have a lot of once fired military brass-the primer is crimped in my old brass.
Strainer for cleaning media to separate brass (Mine once was my wife's kitchen colander).
Storage bins for fired caliber segregated-I use coffee cans, cardboard boxes and have some nice cheap plastic storage bins I picked up.
For live rounds-some nice plastic cases are nice to have but for bulk I use old army ammo cans.
Spray on case lube for necked cartridges-the case blocks make this too easy, compared to old pad and roll lube.

Now not in keeping with the bottom line up front, SAFETY! Never compromise safety! Most blown up guns are the direct result of reloading errors.

Here are the more common causes of reloading Ka-Booms:

Double charge of powder
Wrong powder for data used
Wrong weight bullet for data
Compressing the non-compressible powder charge (too deeply seated bullet)
Excessively worn brass

Other things that can contribute:

High riding primers-primer not fully seated
Excessive crimping
There are others and a basic reloading manual should make you aware of them.

Don't reload 1K of ammo only to find it doesn't work well. Load 20-50 or so and fire it up checking for reliability, signs of excessive pressure/power and any other factors you consider important. Reloading can be a lot of fun but if you want to save money, don't do it. It just often leads to buying more stuff and shooting a heck of a lot more.

Need to make this ^^^^ a STICKEY BASIC'S for RELOADING Read first ask questions after. It's one of the most common asked questions. RamRodDoc & Chuckdog did a great job on basic stuff here. I added a few press descriptions

 

[bwsmith]

Short, sweet and to the point. Thanks guys. This gives me a great place to start my research.

 

[Junior_357]

Everybody here has pretty much said what I would say. My only other tip is read, read, read...and then read a little more. I did before I bought anything.

For starting out...I recommend either the O-frame Lee stuff, or a turret press. I went turret press for my first rig, and have no regrets. If you do go turret...just make sure you pay attention to what the turret is doing, and which die is above the round at a given time. It's REALLY easily to double charge a round if the powder drop is automated into the press (like mine is). All it takes is to short-cycle the lever and not advance the turret.

As far as speed...don't worry about that at this point. Safety first...speed will come with repetition. I can load 150+ .38spl rounds in an hour...but I have been doing this a while. When I first started, I would do well to turn out 50 in an hour.

 

[bwsmith]

For now, I am going to read up and keep my brass.

But if you want a sticky with newbie questions, I have plenty lol. Noone has to answer these as I will be searching to find the answers as I need them or I already know the answer but had the question previously before I looked it up, but food for thought for the mods if they want to start a Reloading FAQ thread.

Can Nickel cases be reloaded?

What is Berden Primed, how to tell, and why can't it be reloaded?

How many reloads out of a single brass?

What is a "Die" used for?

What to look for to determine if brass is not safely reloadable?

Why can't steel case like Wolf be reloaded?

Where to find once fired brass?

What safety precautions when testing your first batch of reloads or your first attempt at a hot round?

How cost effective is it to reload (on a per round basis)?

What about "Starter Kits" such as this http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/64431-1.html ? (actually, this one I would like to know the answer to )

Are there any calibers that it is just not worth reloading?

Do most people primarily reload target rounds or defense/hunting rounds?

How much more difficult are rifle rounds to reload over handgun rounds?

Like I said, not really looking for someone to type up answers for all of these unless you really want to as I can do a quick search and probably find the answers (and many i already looked up the answers). But a Reloading FAQ may not be a bad idea and this would give the mods a good place to start I think. Of course, you guys know more about the questions folks ask most often more than I do.

 

[rbstern]

Can Nickel cases be reloaded?

Yes. They don't last quite as long as brass, tending to split at the neck a little faster.

What is Berden Primed, how to tell, and why can't it be reloaded?

Berdan has a different primer pocket. It has two pinholes for the flash (where the flame goes through to the case), making it very difficult to deprime in comparison to a boxer case (which has a single flash hole, large enough to pass through a steel rod to push the out the old primer).

Berdan can be reloaded, but requires special tools and procedures. New Berdan primers are rarely available for sale anywhere. Not for newbies.

How many reloads out of a single brass?

It depends on a number of variables. The cartridge and the loads fired have a lot to do with brass life. Mild 38 special cases seem to last indefinitely. Rifle cases, particularly those used in high pressure rounds, tend to yield about half a dozen loads before they are ready to be discarded. The firearm they are used in matters. For example, .303 British fired in loose chambered/rear locking Enfield rifles can wear out in as few as three loads.

What is a "Die" used for?

For shaping the brass. Sizing die shapes the brass back to original specification. A flaring die flares the case mouth to accept a bullet. A seating die pushes the bullet into the case at the proper depth and typically unflares the case mouth to hold the bullet firmly in place. Those are general descriptions. There are more particulars for specific types of dies, but you'll learn all that later.

What to look for to determine if brass is not safely reloadable?

Discoloration due to stretching. Cracks in case mouth or body.

Why can't steel case like Wolf be reloaded?

They can, but it's a lot of effort and generally not worthwhile (see Berdan explanation above).

Where to find once fired brass?

At the range. Look down.

Obviously, the factory ammo you shoot becomes your once-fired brass. Most reloaders trade brass. We trade it here often.

What safety precautions when testing your first batch of reloads or your first attempt at a hot round?

Have a friend shoot it first.

Just kidding. I like to load only one round in the gun, in case of malfunction. Eye and ear protection, always. Have others stand clear. If it's a load that's really "out there," mount the gun in a firing stand or gun cradle and fire with a 10' long string. You shouldn't even be thinking about hot loads until you've got some experience under your belt. Load using the STARTING loads in the guide books until you have more experience.

How cost effective is it to reload (on a per round basis)?

Anywhere from mildly (9mm with store bought FMJ bullets), to wildly (expensive ammo like 357/44/45, most rifle calibers, etc). Savings can range anywhere from 20 to 95%, depending on what you are loading, where you got your supplies, etc.

What about "Starter Kits" such as this http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/64431-1.html ? (actually, this one I would like to know the answer to )

Generally, they are good places to start and represent a good value. If you are going to load rifle and pistol brass, I would recommend building your setup around the Lee Classic Cast turret. It's a more versatile, faster press. The accessories such as the scale are a bit inferior to the RCBS stuff at your link, but they are functional, and the press more than makes up for the difference.

Are there any calibers that it is just not worth reloading?

Again, depends on your perspective and methods. If you're buying FMJ bullets for 9mm and simple plinking, you might only be saving a couple of bucks over the cost of Wolf 9mm, and spending a lot of time to save that couple of bucks. However, most handloaders realize better accuracy and appreciate the control they get over things like bullets weight, velocity, and recoil when crafting their own handloads.

Do most people primarily reload target rounds or defense/hunting rounds?

All over the map.

How much more difficult are rifle rounds to reload over handgun rounds?

More steps, more care required, and signficantly more time per round. But not difficult, once you've done it.

 

[Petro_58]

Rbstern gave you all good answers. #1 rule for picking up brass at the range, ALWAYS ASK, some people pick up their own brass. #2 NEVER PICKUP AROUND SOMEONE THAT'S SHOOTING. When I go to the range that's always the first thing I do, or have the kids do. As for the once fired brass, it can be found here on the trader, other online forums, there are plenty of online places that sell it also. PM me I can give you a list fof places online to look, if you want. Your local public range, some WMA (Wildlife Management Areas) have public ranges, some commercial ranges sell it also. I swap for alot online, I always pickup whats at the range even if I don't shoot that caliber, then I'll swap it to someone for brass that I need.

Some rifle rounds are more time intense than others to reload. My .30 carbine, and .357mag lever action are similar to pistol rounds. My 30.06 is no more of pain to load for than anything else either. So it depends on what your loading for.

A good Press, just my opinion I'd go with a Lee 4 hole Turret press kit, they make several nice kits. Check MidwayUSA.com, Cheaperthandirt, etc. I'd go with that rather than a single stage you'll appreciate it later! Their not that expensive.
I load them all, Target, Hunting and Defensive. Alot of choices out there for reloading your own.

Here's some .45acp defensive rounds I worked up this morning.

I've been loading my butt off for the last several day's getting ready for another trip to the range. 200 -.357, 200- 30.06, 150-.30 carbine, 200-.380acp, 150-.45acp target loads. I only loaded 30-.45acp defesive rounds, because I'm developing the load. When I get the recipe the way I want it I'll load more.