Pediatrician questions

[MCG DAWG]

Let me help you with it then. It's not hard to grasp if you try.

1. It makes the assumption that we need to be told that. Outrageously condescending.

2. It has nothing to do at all with preventative medicine, zip. Your official title is Doctor, not world safety director.

3. It's just flat out absolutely none of your business.

I used an example earlier of power tools, but there are a jillion dangerous thing around an average household. Explain to me why you don't go down a checklist of all of those.

1. You get pissed off and angry everytime someone tells you something you don't feel you need to be told? We tell everyone, that way the ones who do need to know it get to hear it.

2. It has everything to do with preventative medicine. You don't think so? Tell that to these four children in my hometown. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/dec/22/boy-2-latest-shooting-fatality/ Part of what we do as doctors and what we are trained to do is public safety. The leading cause of death for those ages 1-44 is accidental injury. Not a safety issue? Surely you jest. The NUMBER ONE KILLER of everyone from age 1-44 is not a public safety issue that should concern the physicians caring for this age group? Please explain that point of view further. I'm interested in your response. Not everything is a government conspiracy so take the tin foil hat off, appreciate the fact your child's physician is trying to help keep you and your family safe and alive, and just plain disregard anything you feel doesn't apply to you.

3. If you want me to be your family doctor it is my business. If you prefer certain things not be my business (which occassionally comes up in my practice) you and I will discuss our different viewpoints and see if we can come up with a common ground. Rarely we can't and either of us can decide to end the patient/doctor relationship. No harm, no foul.

 

[Hasselhoss]

1. You get pissed off and angry everytime someone tells you something you don't feel you need to be told? We tell everyone, that way the ones who do need to know it get to hear it.

2. It has everything to do with preventative medicine. You don't think so? Tell that to these four children in my hometown. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/dec/22/boy-2-latest-shooting-fatality/ Part of what we do as doctors and what we are trained to do is public safety. The leading cause of death for those ages 1-44 is accidental injury. Not a safety issue? Surely you jest. The NUMBER ONE KILLER of everyone from age 1-44 is not a public safety issue that should concern the physicians caring for this age group? Please explain that point of view further. I'm interested in your response. Not everything is a government conspiracy so take the tin foil hat off, appreciate the fact your child's physician is trying to help keep you and your family safe and alive, and just plain disregard anything you feel doesn't apply to you.

3. If you want me to be your family doctor it is my business. If you prefer certain things not be my business (which occassionally comes up in my practice) you and I will discuss our different viewpoints and see if we can come up with a common ground. Rarely we can't and either of us can decide to end the patient/doctor relationship. No harm, no foul.

Argumentum ad misericordiam

 

[GeauxLSU]

Part of what we do as doctors and what we are trained to do is public safety. The leading cause of death for those ages 1-44 is accidental injury. Not a safety issue? Surely you jest. The NUMBER ONE KILLER of everyone from age 1-44 is not a public safety issue that should concern the physicians caring for this age group? Please explain that point of view further. I'm interested in your response.

As a doctor you are educated, so I'm going to assume there is no way you are serious. What does age 44 have to do with it? Or are you asking this of ALL your patients?
What are the top 10 causes of accidental death of children? Do you spend as much time quizzing your patients about what they doing to do 'prevent' all the other forms of accidental death that outrank accidental gun deaths, especially of children?
By the way, do you ask a child if their parents' smoke?
This thread just gets more bizarre.....

 

[MCG DAWG]

O.K.

Guns are irrelevant to preventive medicine. As irrelevant as slipping on ice and falling down the steps, or getting hit with a baseball, or running in front of a bus. or maybe slipping in the shower. Accidents happen. Accidents have nothing to do with preventive medicine. I am not a physician, but I have a good B.S. detector. And gun storage advice as "preventative health" is just absurd. You could spend 4 hours with each family telling them to not stick their fingers in light sockets or eat rat poison too. Calling this a preventative medical issue is just silly.

Actually one of the things we discuss when age appropriate is the proper safety equipment in sports such as batting helmets, chest protectors, cups, faceguards,etc. We actually do discuss safely crossing the street with kids once they hit 3 years old or so. In older adults Medicare actually encourages us to SPECIFICALLY ask about safety handles in the shower and fall risks in the home as part of a yearly physical. As for rat poison, in families with newly mobile infants we have long discussions about child proofing the house, about locking up all caustic/potentially harmful chemicals, and trying to keep all of them located in a single location, preferably up high, and keeping it locked up. Such advice is not "abusurd" as you call it, is well within the norms for a practicing primary physician, and would be a normal and expected portion of any yearly physical/preventative medicine visit.

Imagine the following conversation.

Doc "Your kid in an appropriate car seat for their height and weight?"

Parent "Yes"

Doc "Your kid always wear a helmet when taking his swings at baseball practice?"

Parent "Absolutely, league even requires a face shield on the helmet"

Doc "If you have guns in the house, make sure none are easily accessible when loaded and that your kids are familiar with what they should do if they see a gun unattended and go over the 4 main rules of gun safety"

Parent response #1 "Sure thing doc, no problem".

Alternative Response #2 "SCREW YOU DOC! NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS! HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY GUNS! I WANT MY RECORDS WE'RE GOING TO ANOTHER DOCTOR THAT KNOWS HIS PLACE!"


What seems to be the reasonable response to a basic line of firearm safety advice, answer #1 or answer #2?

 

[MCG DAWG]

As a doctor you are educated, so I'm going to assume there is no way you are serious. What does age 44 have to do with it? Or are you asking this of ALL your patients?
What are the top 10 causes of accidental death of children? Do you spend as much time quizzing your patients about what they doing to do 'prevent' all the other forms of accidental death that outrank accidental gun deaths, especially of children?
By the way, do you ask a child if their parents' smoke?
This thread just gets more bizarre.....

I use age 1-44 because {drumroll please} that's the age range where accidental injury is the leading cause of death. Under 1 year of age and over 45 years of age there are different leading causes of death.

Yes, we do also cover fire safety, water safety, poisoning risks, motor vehicle safety, and other of the leading causes of accidental deaths. Keeping loaded guns out of the hands of small children is one of MANY aspects of safety we go over. We're not picking on anyone, we're not helping build a government database. We're simply doing what we can to try and prevent accidental death and injury to our children.

We do ask if the parents smoke. Lots of data showing that children of parents who smoke have a much higher rate of respiratory infections, develop asthma more frequently, etc. Yet another thing we try and stop before it causes significant health issues in children.

 

[MCG DAWG]

It is called “conditioning” folks. First, the government gets you used to doctors asking non-medical related topics under the guise it will not be reported. Then, a generation later after everyone is comfortable with the idea they expand it into the medical records under the guise it is for the good of public safety. At that point when the good doctor asks you if you drink coffee, he checks yes or no in the box; the same with smoking, alcohol, yes or no. Now comes the part where you have been indoctrinated to accept gun ownership questions in the same context, “do you own guns”? If you answer “yes” to both alcohol and guns, sirens begin to blow, the facility goes on lockdown, drones appear overhead, and ATF is dispatched to the location.
OK, maybe I am being a bit facetious, but the reality is this; I find it difficult to believe that any group (anti-gunners) who fights for the right to shove a steel rod through the head of a third-trimester fetus for convenience sake is truly concerned for our children’s safety. With that said, under the current political climate, it is not an illogical jump to connect the dots that the requiring of doctors to now ask gun related questions is nothing more than another backdoor attempt to restrict gun ownership. Anyone who supports the nanny state agenda being forced upon us under the guise it is for our own good is part of the problem, and definitely not part of the solution. Allowing liberals to use our children as pawns in their quest to control us is appalling to say the least.

While I disagree with the point of "using kids as pawns" I can't say that the other issues you address may not become an issue. A majority of Americans voted for Obama and in turn voiced their support for Obamacare. If it succeeds in making private insurance such a large financial burden that NO ONE will have it and everyone will be on the government plan. Don't think for a second that if you accept the goverment run healthcare that they won't track all sorts of info/data/metrics and have all sorts of things tied to it. Scares the **** out of me to be quite honest.

 

[graybeard]

1. You get pissed off and angry everytime someone tells you something you don't feel you need to be told? We tell everyone, that way the ones who do need to know it get to hear it.

2. It has everything to do with preventative medicine. You don't think so? Tell that to these four children in my hometown. http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/dec/22/boy-2-latest-shooting-fatality/ Part of what we do as doctors and what we are trained to do is public safety. The leading cause of death for those ages 1-44 is accidental injury. Not a safety issue? Surely you jest. The NUMBER ONE KILLER of everyone from age 1-44 is not a public safety issue that should concern the physicians caring for this age group? Please explain that point of view further. I'm interested in your response. Not everything is a government conspiracy so take the tin foil hat off, appreciate the fact your child's physician is trying to help keep you and your family safe and alive, and just plain disregard anything you feel doesn't apply to you.

3. If you want me to be your family doctor it is my business. If you prefer certain things not be my business (which occassionally comes up in my practice) you and I will discuss our different viewpoints and see if we can come up with a common ground. Rarely we can't and either of us can decide to end the patient/doctor relationship. No harm, no foul.

And here in a nutshell doc is where we disagree to the core. You are most decidedly NOT a public safety director, you are a physician. Two entirely different jobs, and if you think they overlap then you need to see about getting those delusions of grandeur seen about.

It so so obscenely misguided for you to think public safety is any concern of yours, barring of course a return of the bubonic plague or the like.

Truly it's difficult for me to understand the ego that would allow you to develop that sort of sense of self importance.

I think it's hopeless trying to prevail in this argument-you really do think you're God, don't you?

 

[Lebowski]

MCG DAWG raises valid points. No need for name calling, folks.

Just take your child to a timid doctor who won't step on your toes. It's a free country.

 

[jcountry]

Totally disagree with the good dr.

As far as "age appropriate advice" what to you tell people about jumping in front of a bus? What about getting out of a house that is on fire?

I have never had anyone inquire as to guns in my house, and I don't think it is any more appropriate for you to be asking these questions than it would be for my dentist to ask whether my dog is kept in a fenced yard.

I am sure your heart is in the right place, and you really do care about your patients... But I think we are going to have to disagree on this one. I think this information has nothing to do with keeping anyone healthy or safe. Politicians are just getting people used to answering such questions from the dr. And you guys are being conditioned to think that this info is appropriate. You can bet that one day, you will be required to send this info off to some govt agency to create a defacto database.

 

[MCG DAWG]

And here in a nutshell doc is where we disagree to the core. You are most decidedly NOT a public safety director, you are a physician. Two entirely different jobs, and if you think they overlap then you need to see about getting those delusions of grandeur seen about.

It so so obscenely misguided for you to think public safety is any concern of yours, barring of course a return of the bubonic plague or the like.

Truly it's difficult for me to understand the ego that would allow you to develop that sort of sense of self importance.

I think it's hopeless trying to prevail in this argument-you really do think you're God, don't you?

Just to make sure we're clear here I want to make sure of the following statements.

1. The number one leading cause of death in children 1-18 and adults 18-44 is unintended injury/accidents. Within that parameter are drowning, poisoning, motor vehicle accidents, accidental or intentional gunshots, falls.

2. Doctors are directly involved in promoting healthy and safe lifestyle choices and take a vested interest in ensuring their patients STAY ALIVE.

3. Two leading causes of death over the age of 45 are heart disease and cancer.

4. Doctors are directly involved in the prevention of, diagnosis of, and treatment of heart disease and cancer.

5 (a) - MCG DAWG's opinion backed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and the American Medical Association (a fairly liberal organization I refuse to join) all state primary care physicians play a very active role and are at the forefront of public safety and health.

or

5(b) The American Academy of Graybeard position that doctors should ignore, not dare discuss, and turn a blind eye to what kills the most Americans between the ages of 1-44.

Sorry Graybeard but I'm going with 5(a) all day long. You just have a misunderstanding of the role of primary care doctors. That's no fault of your own as you have no reason to know the role we play unless you're within the healthcare system or have taken a major interest in educating yourself about primary care practice. I would think you could take this as a learning experience and not cling to an obviously incorrect assertion that primary care docs have no role in public safety. As others have noted, I sure as hell won't tell a mechanic what is wrong with my car, won't question the HVAC guy when he says my compressor is shot, and won't tell a plumber how the hell he should do his job or what the scope of his job is. I'd appreciate it if you didn't doubt what I spent seven years after college learning and the past ten years practicing.

Now, a more important question, and I can't make this up but I'm sure many will doubt it. My last encounter today before I left the office was with a hospital administrator. He offered to trade me 100 223 FMJ rounds for 3 PMAGS when I told him I was expecting 10 in from DSG within the next week. I think it's a fair trade and I'm probably getting the better end of it. However, pre panic this would have been perfectly even cost wise. I'm thinking I'll take the deal. Offered me tracer rounds first but I had no desire for those. Guy is flush with rounds but very low on mags. Always good to have one of the admin types owing me a favor.