Pediatrician questions

[GeauxLSU]

Accidents kill children ages 1-18 more than anything other cause
Accidental shootings are included in these accidents.
Doctors want to save the lives of children
Therefore, doctors should warn of the dangers of accidents including accidental shootings.

And that's where you continuously stretched justification falls flat. Where on the list of causes of accidental death of children is accidental shootings? Do you spend as much or more time quizzing the parents on what they are doing to avoid all the other things that cause a greater number of accidental deaths than deaths by accidental gunshot? If so, I guess now we know why we all spend so much time in the waiting room.....
You've mentioned that you feel it is your job to be the home safety police so where does that roll begin and end out of curiosity? You've also said multiple times now that you don't ask anything you simply TELL them (remind them) about safe storage/handling and make no notes (correct?). That is NOT what the OP experienced or many others apparently. Is there or is there not an organization or affiliation compelling you to inquire about firearm ownership in the homes of your patients and if so what are the consequences of you not complying? Or is this simply a mass enlightenment of doctors nationwide that suddenly, firearms ownership is their business when it never was before? I realize research advances and for instance generations ago science didn't know (or admit) the harm tobacco could do (for example) but did we really not know, since their beginning, that firearms can kill people?

 

[MCG DAWG]

Again, you are comparing totally different things here.

By your logic, if a doctor is asking questions like,"Do you own guns? Are your guns locked up and inaccessable to your children?", they should also be asking questions like,"Do you own a car? Are your cars locked up and inaccessable to your kids?" See how stupid the second set of questions sound? Yet more children ages 1-18 are killed in car accidents than accidental shootings by a wide margin.

I am by no means suggesting that people shouldn't be educated about safety, gun or otherwise, but the doctor's office should not be the place for it. If it must be, then it should be a discussion, not a bunch of questions asked to the children.

I'm not here to debate what your job requirements are. I am simply trying to point out that the comparisons you are trying to make are not logical.

I was assuming you to have a high level of intelligence and reading comprehension due to your years of school and the fact that you are doctor. Apparently I was either wrong or your ego is getting in the way. This is the second time I have pointed out your illogical comparisons and graybeard basically said the same thing I said in my previous post except his was a bit more eloquent. Yet you seem to have either not read those posts or not comprehended them since you continue to offer the same kind of illogical comparisons and keep choosing different words to repeat what you have already said.

You really want to attack my logic and reading comprehension? Careful or we'll pull down our zippers and compare SAT/ACT verbal scores if you're not careful.

You and graybeard seem to feel it's not the doctors role to discuss with the patients and their families issues relating to public health such as gun safety, car safety, fire safety, etc. Graybeard has told me I should not discuss gun safety as I'm not an expert. Logically it makes sense to then extrapolate that burden of "being an expert" to the other issues we should discuss, thus the examples I gave that you claim are "illogical" and bad comparisions. Why is the burden of "being an expert" ok in one comparison but not in the other?

You and graybeard are more than welcome to disagree that it is the role of the doctor to discuss these issues. However, it is very widely accepted as the norm that we should discuss at every physical visit for children of all ages. No, if you bring your child in for strep throat that is not something I'm going to run through but when they come in for a yearly physical, as they should, it's one of the main things we go over.

To give you an example of the public saftey/preventative health/anticipatory guidance recommendations I found the following link to some pre printed visit forms for ages birth to 18. Just scroll down to page 22 and you can read the anticipatory guidance guidelines for the various ages from page 22 on. You'll probably be shocked the width of bredth of things we should discuss at each age. As you CORRECTLY noted this should be a discussion and not some form of lecture. As page one notes these are the summary recommendations of the American Academy of Pediatrics/CDC/Americal Medical Association. http://www.vapremier.com/uploads/pdf/EPSDTand_Anticipatory_Guid_Chart_Form.pdf

Drew you and Graybeard are welcome to question whether it's appropriate but the overwhelming evidence is against you.

Also, I was incorrect about the doctor's son that was killed here recently. The 2 year old did not shoot himself with a 1911. It was a .40 cal but not sure what type. http://www.newschannel9.com/news/to...r-old-boy-accidentally-shot-killed-3744.shtml

 

[captdave77]

The fact that the arrogance is institutionalized does not make it it right. The assumption is poor uneducated slobs would be running with scissors if not for the grace of G..I mean doctor.

I guess it is a good thing my wife and I do not have any children because I don't think our values fit in society anymore. Had my pediatrician asked me if my father had guns the answer would have been "yes". He kept a 12 gauge under the bed and a 9mm on the night stand. We came home from school and did homework alone without the firearms ever attacking us. We understood they belonged to my father and God help us if we touched them without permission.

I don't go to my doctor for life advice. I go annually for my physical and when I am sick. I like my doctor. He is a hell of a nice guy and when I was a "self pay" he made an effort to prescribe the least expensive drug or give me samples. I drive from Dallas to Tucker to see him, but I would drop him in a heartbeat if I thought he was nosing his way into gun ownership.

You have to look at things from the patient's perspective. The doctor has all the power in the relationship and patients feel vulnerable. The patient is stripped naked, examined, critiqued, and now interrogated with non-medical questions.

You can hide behind "health related" if it makes you feel better but everything is health related by your standard.

 

[GeauxLSU]

You have to look at things from the patient's perspective. The doctor has all the power in the relationship and patients feel vulnerable. The patient is stripped naked, examined, critiqued, and now interrogated with non-medical questions.
You can hide behind "health related" if it makes you feel better but everything is health related by your standard.

Ah... but you see, look at it from the doctor's perspective. He/she knows what's best for you. If you knew what's best for you, you wouldn't need to go see them in the first place. See how that works (for them)?.....

 

[Hasselhoss]

Doc "Your kid in an appropriate car seat for their height and weight?"

Parent "Yes"

Doc "Your kid always wear a helmet when taking his swings at baseball practice?"

Parent "Absolutely, league even requires a face shield on the helmet"

Doc "If you have guns in the house, make sure none are easily accessible when loaded and that your kids are familiar with what they should do if they see a gun unattended and go over the 4 main rules of gun safety"

Parent response #1 "Sure thing doc, no problem".

Alternative Response #2 "SCREW YOU DOC! NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS! HOW DARE YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY GUNS! I WANT MY RECORDS WE'RE GOING TO ANOTHER DOCTOR THAT KNOWS HIS PLACE!"


What seems to be the reasonable response to a basic line of firearm safety advice, answer #1 or answer #2?

Bifurcation

 

[Springfield 1911]

You really want to attack my logic and reading comprehension? Careful or we'll pull down our zippers and compare SAT/ACT verbal scores if you're not careful.

You and graybeard seem to feel it's not the doctors role to discuss with the patients and their families issues relating to public health such as gun safety, car safety, fire safety, etc. Graybeard has told me I should not discuss gun safety as I'm not an expert. Logically it makes sense to then extrapolate that burden of "being an expert" to the other issues we should discuss, thus the examples I gave that you claim are "illogical" and bad comparisions. Why is the burden of "being an expert" ok in one comparison but not in the other?

You and graybeard are more than welcome to disagree that it is the role of the doctor to discuss these issues. However, it is very widely accepted as the norm that we should discuss at every physical visit for children of all ages. No, if you bring your child in for strep throat that is not something I'm going to run through but when they come in for a yearly physical, as they should, it's one of the main things we go over.

To give you an example of the public saftey/preventative health/anticipatory guidance recommendations I found the following link to some pre printed visit forms for ages birth to 18. Just scroll down to page 22 and you can read the anticipatory guidance guidelines for the various ages from page 22 on. You'll probably be shocked the width of bredth of things we should discuss at each age. As you CORRECTLY noted this should be a discussion and not some form of lecture. As page one notes these are the summary recommendations of the American Academy of Pediatrics/CDC/Americal Medical Association. http://www.vapremier.com/uploads/pdf/EPSDTand_Anticipatory_Guid_Chart_Form.pdf

Drew you and Graybeard are welcome to question whether it's appropriate but the overwhelming evidence is against you.

Also, I was incorrect about the doctor's son that was killed here recently. The 2 year old did not shoot himself with a 1911. It was a .40 cal but not sure what type. http://www.newschannel9.com/news/to...r-old-boy-accidentally-shot-killed-3744.shtml

Doc, I don't think anyone on here is questioning you education. The Anticipatory Guidance listed on the form in the link you provided seems to me to be more of what parents should be doing than what a doctor should be doing. I think at some point we need to get back to personal responsiblity. I know if you had asked me are my guns locked up I might not have been as friendly as some. I'll leave the medical work to you, but doctors need to leave the parenting to the parents.

 

[Jester7]

On rare, VERY RARE occasions I tell people to go **** themselves. Then add that repentance to my nightly prayer for forgiveness.

I'm wish you there man...

 

[graybeard]

The doc said: "Drew you and Graybeard are welcome to question whether it's appropriate but the overwhelming evidence is against you."

Doc, I promised myself I was going to let this go because I have finally realized that something in your educational experience has convinced you that not only is it OK for you to be my family's nanny, but in fact you have a responsibility to be so. And that ridiculous and intrusive belief is further buttressed by professional organizations as you point out.

But doc, the "overwhelming evidence" you reference is your own trade group! You're using your own opinion as proof positive that your opinion is correct! Do you really not see the fallacy of this reasoning?

Let's face it doc. You do this out of an arrogant belief that you have been charged with saving the world, whether it wants to be saved or not. You're far smarter than parents, so that gives you the right to proceed any way you desire.

If you are able to intimidate and bully enough patients into going along with that for you to make a living, then more power to you. You can continue to enjoy your well-intended but completely arrogant and selfish agenda on people low enough in the food chain that feel like they have to tolerate it.

In the meantime it simply comes down to your inability and unwillingness to mind your own business because you feel like observing such a basic law of social order is trumped by what you see is the greater good.

I am reminded of the old Harley T-shirt that simply proclaims "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." Therein lies the crux of the problem.

By the way, if you'd like to compare SAT scores with say a few grand riding on the outcome, just let me know...

Edited to add: Forget that last sentence. That sounded as arrogant on my part as I'm accusing you of being. Sorry...

 

[bc]

I don't know the groups experiences with doctors, but I can safely say the doctors I know socially are far too busy to spend hours upon hours on a forum defending their stance as a good soldier. Just say'un.

 

[MCG DAWG]

I think you all have a different perspective of the patient doctor relationship and are clinging to an antiquated idea of the doctor says "jump" and the patient says "how high". That's not been the model we've been trained under for a long time. We now look at it as "informed decision making" where I use my knowlege and expertise to give you advice and data while together we work to come up with an ideal plan to get you better, make you safer, make better lifestyle decision. It is not a teacher/student or officer/enlisted relationship but is more of a collegial team working together to a common goal.

I don't see myself as lording up on high and handing down advice like God sending down the ten commandments as to me that's the type of physician/patient relationship y'all are describing. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was born here and raised here. I still live here. I care for former teachers, coaches, pastors, friends, parents of parents, ex girilfriends, etc. We see each other all over town, we go to football games together, we shop at WalMart together, we shoot at the same shooting range.

In my office there is no intimidation or bullying. There's no selfish or arrogant agenda. There's a general concern for the health and well being of all my patients that is particularly amplified in the children I'm privileged to take care of. Part of that care is giving friendly, informed advice, about the leading killer of our children. No different than educating adults on the risks of heart disease/stroke/cancer and what we can do to avoid them.

If you feel your relationship with your primary care doctor is such a subserviant situation and feel you're being talked down by an arrogant bastard then I'd strongly urge you to find a new primary care doc as the one you have just plain isn't doing it right.

And yes greybeard, my own professsional organizations support dispensing this public health advice. It's not some big conspiracy, it's not some governmental ploy to turn this into a nanny state, it's simply an effort to SAVE THE LIVES OF CHILDREN. If you can't see that, well to quote Bobby Brown "that's your prerogative". As for SAT scores . . . you go first.