Pistol Caliber Carbines vs. Shortened Carbines

[jonrykal]

So, I've long been in the mindset that a gun long enough to fire an intermediate cartridge might as well fire a rifle cartridge instead of a pistol cartridge. I have had short ARs for a while now, and while I really like them, some newer pistol caliber carbines have caught my eye. Mainly the B&T ones. Anyway, what are your opinions on 10.5" ARs, Dracos, etc. versus something like a B&T pistol, MP5 clone, LWRC SMG45, etc. Comparing them both using either stocks or braces.
Anything other that the following?
PCC
Pros: slightly shorter, generally cheaper range ammo, quieter (in self defense or suppressed), extremely convenient with braces, small enough to fit in backpack/hiking pack/etc.
Cons: really need to use hollow points, bonded, etc. (More expensive duty/carry rounds) generally expensive, mags cost more, fires less effective round, generally expensive to get into.

Shorty AR/AK/Etc.
Pros: cheap mags, cheap range/duty/carry ammo (xm193 at $0.30 is great), better round, more effective at longer ranges, some pretty good cheap options, mags interchangeable with rifles and super cheap.
Cons: hellaciously loud (probably hard to hear if fired in self defense), slightly longer package, doesnt suppress quite as well.

Please give me your opinions. Really debating getting a B&T GHM9, but does it do anything better than a 10.5/11.5 AR?

 

[bulletpaluza]

With the right PCC, mags are interchangeable with your pistol. Lighter less loud even compared side by side suppressed. Faster follow up shots. PCC wins in CQC in my opinion even out to 100 yards shots are very capable with little need to hold over but you definitely loose the effectiveness of the round.

It all depends on what you want it for. The intended use will dictate what's best.

 

[jonrykal]

With the right PCC, mags are interchangeable with your pistol. Lighter less loud even compared side by side suppressed. Faster follow up shots. PCC wins in CQC in my opinion even out to 100 yards shots are very capable with little need to hold over but you definitely loose the effectiveness of the round.

It all depends on what you want it for. The intended use will dictate what's best.

I already have a few ARs. They are great general purpose guns. I should have specified, I am primarily referring to a truck/backpack gun. Even a home defense gun for the majority of people that don't live on a farm or ranch.

 

[BMC73]

Considering one can get PCCs in 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, and 10mm now I would go that route.

I have a 10.5" PCC "pistol" as well as a 16" PCC. Love them both and shoot them both on the regular. Both have about 8-10k rounds each through them at this point.

 

[StuP]

For home defense I'd go pcc every time. Over penetration has to be a consideration for most people, and most rifle rounds will go through drywall and siding and keep on going. Try letting of a short barrel 223 without hearing protection in an enclosed space, in the dark, and see how you feel..........

 

[batoncolle]

Well since you have ARs already, and if you are going to shoot suppressed, I would take a serious look at the CMMG Guard. You can get the BBL/BCG combo for around $350 and build the rest around AR parts. Take a look at this link http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=538 and what he did to tune the Guard. He's running full auto, but lots of guys are running SA/suppressed, and I've had a chance to shoot one. Very soft shooting with little gas. It will be my next build.

If you're not shooting suppressed, pick your straight blowback of choice, MP5 variant, etc.

 

[albatros43]

PCCs are just cool. Reason enough to get one. Unless you're running suppressed you'll go deaf if you had to fire inside with a shorty AR. A nicely setup PCC is a very nice HD gun. Recoil is basically non-existent as well.

 

[Winterborne]

Find a friend with some of the above weapons and bribe him into a shooting session/range day.
Use foam ear plugs then imagine no ear plugs.

.45 acp is is nice out of a 16" barrel but 9mm is cheaper.

Once you figure your budget start shopping.

 

[Hussar]

Quieter and cheaper practice ammo price. Also potential to be lighter than a comparable rifle cal carbine.

Less ft/lb out off a pcc is the con

I think the effective difference between the two is overblown. The odds of using either in your lifetime is so slim that is almost comical how much time people spend focusing on this stuff.

Also xm193 is a ****ty self defense round.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I don't think pistol caliber carbines offer "faster follow up shots" compared to a .223 / 5.56 rifle.
I've shot both kinds of M4s- AR15's, both full and semi-auto. 9mm using 115 gr. ammo recoiled more, and made the muzzle climb more, than the 55 gr. bullets from the 5.56 select-fire carbine.

I'm on the fence about the issue, too.
One CERTAIN, unquestioned, advantage of the rifle-caliber guns is the range. The ability to engage targets at 200, 300, maybe 400 yards. You're not going to be doing that with a straight-walled pistol cartridge. 100 yards would be the practical max.

At close range, the rifle calibers have an edge "on paper" due to their higher velocity and thus more kinetic energy. More foot-pounds delivered with each hit. But is that going to make a real difference? Isn't a 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, .45 acp, or 10mm auto going to have "enough" penetration and expansion and stopping power? I think so.

But, the noise of a rifle round out of a short barreled carbine (or pistol, with an arm brace) is awful and the muzzle blast slaps your face. It's even worse if you have a compensator / muzzle brake.

The pistol caliber will be more FUN to shoot. More ENJOYABLE. And perhaps that means that the gun will get used more, and keep you totally familiar and comfortable with it. Watch out for guns that you don't like shooting, but rely on for self-defense. When you go to grab them in a panic, you might find out that they don't handle as naturally as the guns you love and shoot every chance you get.