Pistol/Rifle Legality question

[StuP]

will4me can probably answer most of those questions as far as the build.
I've heard conflicting opinions on if you can sell, technically you can sell it if you did not build it with that intent but some state law conflicts with that.
Also technically you don't have to serialize it (or them) if you don't sell them but lots of people suggest you do just in case of theft or if some LEO isn't familiar with 80% receivers.

At least one company has the option of custom engraving on their 80% lowers when you order them.

If you're serious, call the BATF and check, not a conversation you want to have after the fact.

 

[will4me]

What about these 80% lowers?

Say I buy a 5 pack of them (because they are cheaper in bulk) can I build 2 pistols and 3 rifles?

*side note*
Since they have no serial number what do you guys do when you are finished with the builds?

Can you ever sell them?
What about transporting them to the range and you get pulled over?

Now u have 5 ARs with no serial numbers in the truck.

Legalities?

Build all lowers as a Pistol first then you can switch between Rifle or pistol as you wish (Every single Lower I build is built as a pistol first period).
If you build it as a rifle then you can change it to pistol but not back to rifle, that is the ATF rule as stupid as it sounds.
Every FFL that has filled out a 4473 on my lowers has labeled them as Other so I can build it as a pistol or rifle.
When talking about selling 80% lowers all you have to do is Serialize them and you can sell them (must have Your Name, City, State and Serial on it as per BATF Specs).
But if you build them to sell them then you must become a Class 7 Manufacturer FFL.
If you build them then decide to sell one off just do as the ATF says and put a serial on it and sell it off.
You can not sell one without the serial on it as per ATF rules.
And of course this is my interpretation on the ATF rules as I read them, please read them yourself and then consult a lawyer if you need to.
YMMV

From the ATF: Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.

What are ATF Requirements for Serializing a lower?
First, home built rifles for personal use are not required by federal law to have serial number. However, some people wish to engrave one anyway, or you may be required to engrave one if you live in California (Research California Law)

For firearms manufactured in the United States by a commercial firearms manufacturer, federal law requires the following information to be present:

1. A serial number (must not duplicate another serial number you have used before)
2. Caliber. Most people write “Caliber: Multi”.
3. Manufacturer's name. Generally this would be your first and last name.
4. Manufacturer’s city and state. This would be the city and state in which you live.
5. (Optional) If you have decided to assign a model number to your 80% lower, you must engrave it onto the lower. If you have not elected to make up a model number, you do not have to engrave one.

The above information must be engraved to a depth of .003 inches and the text size must be at least 0.125 inches high.

 

[will4me]

I have a hard enough parting with my guns. I buy way more than I sell.

I wouldn't sell them I was thinking:
556 pistol
300 BO pistol
556 rifle 16 in
556 rifle 20 in
300 BO
All as a set - same brand, same style

But is that legal to have 5 guns without serial numbers if you are transporting them to a range or to private property to shoot?

I do it all the time but I carry a Copy of the ATF rules with me so there is no Confusion till I can get it Serialized then I have no worry at all.

Is this legal?
Yes, almost every state in the U.S., it is legal to build your own firearm for personal use, as long as you can legally own a firearm. You must build the lower yourself; it is not legal for somebody else to do it for you.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-individual-need-license-make-firearm-personal-use

 

[gunner1982]

thanks guys!!!

Lots of good information!!!

 

[Radar363]

If you're serious, call the BATF and check, not a conversation you want to have after the fact.

I've never finished an 80% lower but can't imagine trying to sell it if I did.
I also can't imagine buying one someone else finished.
There are decent forged lowers out there at very good prices these days, so I could only see finishing one if I had it engraved with something special I wanted my sons to have after I'm gone.

 

[gh1950]

You can sell a gun you build. You can't build guns to sell.

BATF has some magic number at which they consider you a "manufacturer". I don't know the number and I'm not really interested in finding out, because you usually find out the hard way.

Also, BATF takes a different view of you building a custom hunting rifle on a Mauser action that take you 3 years to build, and an AR-15 you are cranking out one a month.

This is one of those issues where every one wants a bright line so they can walk as close to it as possible.

If I did a build on an unserialized lower, I would add serial number. Reason: you may be perfectly legal but local LEO are trained to treat any gun w/o a serial number as contraband. Just depends on how much time you want to spend proving a point.

Like wise I would never build a pistol on a lower than has been transferred at any time as a rifle.