Question About Recent Traffic Stop

[jeepinshep]

My wife and I were on our way home from dinner a couple nights ago when I got pulled over by a Cherokee County Deputy. I looked at my wife in bewilderment because I was quite certain I wasn't speeding. The deputy walks up and starts shining his flashlight through all the windows of our '96 Cherokee and approaches my door.

I had my license and registration all ready to go but was bound and determined to ask why I'd been pulled over before giving him anything. Meanwhile, my wife (in the passenger seat) pulls out her wallet and starts looking around for an insurance card.

"Don't worry," he says "you weren't speeding or anything. The reason I pulled you over is because your taillights are kinda dim."

WTF? Dim Taillights? They can pull you over for that?

"Mind if I take a look at your license?"

"Uh...sure" and I oblige him. After all, I have nothing to hide.

"You too ma'am."

WTF??? What the hell does he need to see her license for? I was about to ask him that very question, but my wife reached across me and handed it to him.

By his own admission, I wasn't doing anything illegal, everything on my vehicle was in proper order except his opinion was that my taillights were "kinda dim". After a few minutes he returned with our driver's licenses and sent us on our way wishing us a nice evening and a "drive safe".

This whole ordeal seemed an awful lot like a fishing expedition to me. So when I got home I checked the taillights against those of my BMW and they were every bit as bright. Seems kinda crooked to me that officers have the right to pull you over for no reason at all and claim that it was because your "taillights are kinda dim".

First of all, I never knew that "dim" taillights were a ticket-able offense, or that you could be pulled over for it. Secondly, that seems awfully subjective. After all, I don't recall ever seeing any equipment on LE vehicles that measures the lumens of light bulbs in the taillights of a vehicle traveling in excess of 40 mph....

So....my questions for your ODT guys (any LEO's in particular) are these:

1.) Do LEO's actually have the right to pull someone over for "dim" taillights that aren't actually any dimmer than any other cars on the road?

2.) Could I refuse to provide my license, as the driver, after being pulled over for a non-ticket-able offense?

3.) What right does he have to ask for the ID of my passengers (especially when pulled over for a non-ticket-able offense)?

4.) Could my passengers refuse to provide ID, regardless of whether the driver was breaking the law or not?

Basically the whole thing got me pretty upset. I know that most of the people on this forum don't appreciate having their rights violated, and I am one of them. This whole thing was a bunch of BS in my opinion. So I wanted to get the input of my fellow ODTers.

THANKS in ADVANCE!

*****************************

EDIT: Just to clarify - my taillights weren't covered in dirt, mud, or grime, and I don't have any kind of aftermarket smoked lenses or lens covers/protectors or anything like that. They are factory taillights with fully compliant bulbs in them.

 

[drtybykr]

1. No, he was fishing.

2.No, you must show your license when operating a motor vehicle.

3.None

4.yes.


ETA: I would write a letter to the supervisor, or give them a call to see if it is policy to pull folks over for not breaking any laws.

 

[unclear.six]

1. No, he was fishing.

2.No, you must show your license when operating a motor vehicle.

3.None

4.yes.


ETA: I would write a letter to the supervisor, or give them a call to see if it is policy to pull folks over for not breaking any laws.

Concur.

Love the avatar BTW

 

[wozbean]

Did you offer him your GFL?

I once had a cop tell me my exhaust was too loud. I asked how it was too loud because it had factory exhaust manifolds, full pipes and OE mufflers, he said because he could hear it as I drove by. NICE. Let me off with a warning though. He was a prick. He got out his little window tint guide to check the windows, got out the tire tread measure device to check the tires, basically gave the entire car a "safety inspection" he says. He must of had a hard on for me.

I used to deliver furniture in college for an upscale furniture store and whenever we delivered furniture to a certain town it was their policy to pull over every vehicle capable of carry large items (pick up trucks, vans, box trucks) and any passenger vehicle they didn't recognize. I'll tell you what that was a pain in the arse. Their residents (all millionaires) were paranoid.

Cops "fish" all the time.

 

[Junior_357]

So....my questions for your ODT guys (any LEO's in particular) are these:

3.) What right does he have to ask for the ID of my passengers (especially when pulled over for a non-ticket-able offense)?

4.) Could my passengers refuse to provide ID, regardless of whether the driver was breaking the law or not?

3.None

4.yes.


ETA: I would write a letter to the supervisor, or give them a call to see if it is policy to pull folks over for not breaking any laws.

The LEO was probably profiling. Perhaps miscreants have an affinity for your particular kind of vehicle. It is definitely not out of the norm for any LE agency to do this, trust me. And the fact that the LEO checked your ID's and let you ride is further evidence that he profiled your vehicle and confirmed you were not who he was looking for...there is a good chance that they were looking for someone with a similar vehicle.

I have to respectfully disagree with drtybykr's responses to 3 & 4. LEO's can request anyone's ID at any point in time. Failure to present it or resistance to presenting it is a surefire way to get some trumped up charge leveled against you. You hassle the LEO...he will hassle you with an appearance in court. It's about that straightforward whether it is right or not. Respect is a mutual thing...and if you don't show it, neither will the LEO.

But drtybykr has the right idea as to how to respond in the end: Place a call or better yet right a letter to the LEO's supervisor.

 

[drtybykr]

According to Ga. law, the only time you have to provide ID is when you are operating a vehicle. The law also states that you must carry your GWL with you while you are armed, but there is no law compelling you to show it to an officer.

Papers Please!!!


[Broken External Image]:

 

[Ballplayer]

Don't let the badge intimadate you. Stand up for your rights, ask question. What's he going to do, shoot you ?

 

[rbstern]

1.) Do LEO's actually have the right to pull someone over for "dim" taillights that aren't actually any dimmer than any other cars on the road?

Wrong phrasing. You have rights. The LEO took an oath to uphold the state and federal constitutitions, which includes not violating your rights. In this case, the right in question is your right to be free from illegal search and seizure. Based on your description of the circumstances, the LEO violated his oath and your rights.

2.) Could I refuse to provide my license, as the driver, after being pulled over for a non-ticket-able offense?

You would be violating the letter of the law by refusing your license to a LEO at a traffic stop. If it came down to a court situation, and everybody told the truth, I believe you couldn't be convicted of a violation, since the stop was illegal in the first place. But that could be an expensive road to go down.

3.) What right does he have to ask for the ID of my passengers (especially when pulled over for a non-ticket-able offense)?

He can ask anything he wants.

4.) Could my passengers refuse to provide ID, regardless of whether the driver was breaking the law or not?

If you are not operating a motor vehicle, and the officer has no reasonable suspicion you have committed or are about to commit a crime, you are within your rights to refuse to interact with him in any way. If he interferes with your ability to freely travel, assemble with others, enjoy a public place, etc., he's violating your civil rights.

Write a letter to the editor of your local paper describing what happened. Send a copy to the appropriate complaints department at the sheriff's office.

One nice thing about compaints to a sheriff's office (as opposed to a police department): The sheriff is an elected official. Most don't like their deputies losing votes with "enforcement techniques" that result in poor publicity and negative press clippings.

 

[sc951]

If you really want to stir things up, go to the county commisioners meeting and bring it up in the open meeting.

 

[Jerandjen07]

Fishing!!!!!!!!!!you got a hold of the 2%(Looking for Quota)