Question regarding P80 built pistols

[transfixer]

I know the ATF's rules are you can't manufacture and sell firearms that don't have a serial #, but what if you've built a G19 clone using one of the P80 frame kits, and after installing an optics capable slide and a red dot, you decide that red dot optics just isn't your thing ? you decide you'd just as soon sell it and get something else ? it is illegal to sell that pistol to someone else ? I'm talking just one pistol, not doing this for multiple ones

 

[Gingerbeard Man]

I know the ATF's rules are you can't manufacture and sell firearms that don't have a serial #, but what if you've built a G19 clone using one of the P80 frame kits, and after installing an optics capable slide and a red dot, you decide that red dot optics just isn't your thing ? you decide you'd just as soon sell it and get something else ? it is illegal to sell that pistol to someone else ? I'm talking just one pistol, not doing this for multiple ones

Yes, essentially you’ve “manufactured” your own firearm.

Have someone like TheKingofCamo engrave a serial number for you and you’re good to go.

 

[Rougarou]

I read about this a while back if you built it for yourself without the intentions of selling it you can legally sell 1 if you need to.

 

[Gingerbeard Man]

I read about this a while back if you built it for yourself without the intentions of selling it you can legally sell 1 if you need to.

Good info here:

Can I Sell or Give My Homemade Gun to Another Person?

Transferring a homemade gun may be legal if the owner made it and intended to keep it at the time.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

and here:

However, as with everything AFT, it’s a grey area.

Does an individual need a license to make a firearm for personal use? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

No, a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution. The law prohibits a person from assembling a non–sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as well as firearms...

www.atf.gov

My suggestion is proceed with caution. Maybe GAgunLAWbooklet can provide a little more clarity.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I'm not following this development in federal law closely. The proposed rule change is something like 100 pages long of legalese, so unless somebody's paying me to research it, I'm just not interested enough.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

From the U.S. Dep't of Justice website:


Q: Are "Ghost Guns" illegal to possess?

A:
No, privately made firearms are not illegal. The rule does not restrict an individual’s ability to make their own firearms from parts for self-defense or other lawful purposes provided the individual is not prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms, engaged in the business of dealing or manufacturing firearms without a license, or other unlawful activity.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Based on the above, my GUESS is that if you bought ONE build yourself a gun kit back before ATF change the rules and your kid was legally sold to you without any serial number you cannot only finish that kit yourself but as long as you're selling it to another private individual in your state both residents of the same state you don't have to put a serial number on it I don't see anything in the law that requires private individuals who are not "engaged in the business" of firearms to mark their homemade personal-use guns with serial numbers. However if anybody sells this gun to a pawnshop, takes it into a gunsmith for repair, or sells it as a used item to an FFL dealer, then the gun has to be marked with a serial number-- either by you before you bring it to the FFL dealer / gunsmith or by the dealer within 60 days of taking possession of it and before it can be transferred to anybody else

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

But I seem to recall something about ATF's definition of who is "engaged in the business" being changed, so ATF may take the position that if you build a gun for the purpose of selling it for a profiit--even one gun!--- you might trigger the law that applies to manufacturers /dealers.

I definitely would not be selling any homemade gun that I haven't owned for at least a year and taken out shooting on multiple occasions.

 

[BHPSteel]

But I seem to recall something about ATF's definition of who is "engaged in the business" being changed, so ATF may take the position that if you build a gun for the purpose of selling it for a profiit--even one gun!--- you might trigger the law that applies to manufacturers /dealers.

I definitely would not be selling any homemade gun that I haven't owned for at least a year and taken out shooting on multiple occasions.

I'd probably avoid building another one similar to the one I sold anytime soon.

 

[lostchild]

Well, if you don’t post about it on some website, and just do it….
oh, wait…