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Rifle - Individual to FFL?

thegiantmidget

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Buckle up for a long, over-written story.


I purchased an AR-15 modelled after the M16-A2 to familiarize myself with the platform before I ship to basic training at Paris Island. It's a used Colt upper on a Continental Machine & Tool lower. It's nothing fancy, but it's all I could afford. I work long, hard, hot days as a foreman on a local organic farm, and saving the nickels and dimes for the rifle was difficult. The fellow who sold it to me is from Lockport, IL. The rifle shipped last week, and arrived at my FFL today. The guy who has done the last couple transfers for me operates out of a homefront shop about 25-30 miles from my house and charges a modest fee to receive and transfer firearms. I swung by this evening to fill out the paperwork and take possession of my AR. I got about, oh, 30 yards from my mailbox before I received a phone call requesting that I come back to his house to return the rifle, because there is a problem. I get there, and he explains to me that the fellow who I bought the rifle from shipped it himself and not through an FFL, and that this is against FEDERAL law. He went on to say that shipping firearms as an individual to an FFL intrastate is permitted, while all non-licencees must go through an FFL to ship interstate. This all sounded goofy to me, and countered my understanding of the GCA and it's impact on firearms shipping/receiving regulations. IL., admittedly, may have some backasswards, obscure gun control law that prohibit individuals from shipping intrastate, or interstate, to FFLs, but this was not my guy's chief concern. He's supposed to call ATF tomorrow and sort it out, but in the mean time, I am unhappy that I wasted an hour and a half of my time, and $15.00 worth of gas only to have to do it all again tomorrow. Who's at fault here? Myself for failing to understand firearms law? My dealer for the same? The shipper for breaking the law? Everything I have read backs my position, but I wanted some feedback from some ODT folk. Thanks!


TGM
 
your ffl is wrong. I have shipped many AR15 out of state to FFL's and had many shipped to my ffl from out of state from private individuals.
 
It's my understanding (someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) that an individual can ship to an FFL per Federal Law. Quite a few FFL's refuse to receive from individuals because they have no idea who the gun is really coming from. In other words if one FFL ships to another both have a record of the transferee as well as the serial number, whereas I could ship a rifle to an FFL claiming to be someone I am not, possibly having stolen the gun and then selling it out of state. Since the ATF is looking for an excuse to shut down FFL's a lot of them don't want the hassle.

In short, your FFL should have known that he could receive a firearm from an individual. He should have known that it was coming from an individual to begin with, as FFL's that transfer between each other routinely fax copies of their liscense. I'd say he's to blame. If it had of been me, I would not have gone back, would have told him to get his junk together, and made him come get the rifle if it got to that point.

Just sayen.
 
Yeah, your FFL is wrong. An individual can ship across state lines as long as they ship to an FFL.

And once you did the transfer, the rifle was yours. I would not have returned.
 
ATF.gov has this to say


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


I know the guy is a recently retired Vet, but it sounds like I should have paid the couple extra bucks and had her transferred through a less green FFL. This is some pure BS. I've got a lot going on during the day, and breaking away twice is infuriating. I would have been more reluctant to return the weapon had I been more confident in my understanding of the law. I knew it was coming from an individual, and I "knew" that this was legal and perfectly normal, but he seemed sure of his position. I agree that it is a DEALER'S RESPONSIBILITY to know these things, and I really do not appreciate wasting my time or fuel on his foul-up. Pretty steamed.
 
Who did you go through down here? You know Oakwell Armory will do a transfer for like $20 and $5 for military/ police. Plus your not driving that far since its in Kingsland. Shooters of America also treats people pretty well. I have bought a few guns through him, and am extremely impressed with their customer service. Oh BTW Oakwell has a range if you ever want to go out there and shoot, I'm a member. Most weekdays its pretty empty but it normally picks up a bit on the weekends.
 
Who did you go through down here? You know Oakwell Armory will do a transfer for like $20 and $5 for military/ police. Plus your not driving that far since its in Kingsland. Shooters of America also treats people pretty well. I have bought a few guns through him, and am extremely impressed with their customer service. Oh BTW Oakwell has a range if you ever want to go out there and shoot, I'm a member. Most weekdays its pretty empty but it normally picks up a bit on the weekends.

I went through a guy I located on the GB FFL netword (The whole K&K) in Saint Mary's. I got sick of paying $40.00 at T&C and I started using him before I heard about shooters. I definitely need to check out Oakwell. They're much closer. I'm just simply a creature of habit. I actually live in Woodbine, so to locate anything civilized is a hike, unfortunately.
 
Yeah, in retrospect, I was right all along. I should have trusted my gut. I am a by-the-book kind of guy, and I didn't want any trouble if a mistake had genuinely been made on my part or on the part of the seller. Turns out my FFL is the only one who goofed. What a terrible experience this has turned into. I'll be using somebody else from here on out. Hopefully this doesn't go any further south. (I'm having nightmares already about the weapon being stolen, or some uneducated ATF employee giving him further misinformation over the phone tomorrow.)
 
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