Safe Service & Repair Overview & Help Thread

[The SafeMarket]

If You Own a Safe Please Read

Safes of all sorts tend to be very reliable for long periods of time. That said, when there is an issue it always seems to happen at the WORST time and the experience for the owner can be frustrating and expensive. My goal with this thread is to help make the process LESS frustrating and LESS expensive. When many customers have an issue with a safe they tend to need into the safe NOW and that is the worst time to learn how opening and repairing safes actually works. Nothing below is supposed to be definitive or absolute. It is just an overview of a typical process.

I'm going to focus my comments on UL Rated (RSC) "Gun Safes" made by the majority of gun safe manufacturers like Liberty, Browning, Ft. Knox, Amsec, Rhino, etc. Some of what I will say does apply to higher security safes like TLs, but it's not the focus of what is written here.

Oh NO! My Safe Won't Open!!!!

Step 1. Slow down.

There is a chance nothing is actually wrong with the safe. Believe it or not, this happens quite frequently. Customers attempt to open their safe, the safe does not perform how they remember the safe performing and the assumption is made the safe is broken when in reality what the customer remembers is simply incorrect.

Step 2. Walk away, give it 10 minutes and try it again. If you have an electronic safe lock this also gives time for an improperly entered code to wash out, or for a penalty lockout period to expire.

Step 3. Does the safe have an electronic lock? If so, change the battery.

VERIFY THE DATE ON THE BATTERY OR USE A BATTERY TESTER

Step 4. Verify the combination (if you can).

Step 5. Ensure the handle is centered before entering the combination to ensure there is no side pressure on the lock. Likewise, for safes with digital locks, wait half a second or so after entering the combination before you try to turn the handle to open the safe.

Step 6. Verify proper operation of the lock - go to the safe manufacturers website, go on YouTube, etc. Some locks require pressing the # key after entering the code, other locks require the lock to be pressed inward (Group 1 mechanical locks), etc. Not all locks work the same, and the fastest thing to do is double check you are operating the lock correctly.

Step 7. For mechanical safe locks, check the dial ring (the ring bolted to the safe that holds the dialing indicator mark) and make sure this is not loose. If this ring is loose it can cause the combination to shift by a full number left or right.

Step 8. For mechanical safe locks, try dialing the combination slightly up or down a 1/2 number at a time. Mechanical safe locks can "drift" over time, meaning the combination changes ever so slightly with use. It's not common, but it does happen.

My Safe STILL WON"T OPEN. Now What?!?

Now some choices have to be made, and they are largely dependent on how much time you have and how old the safe is.

Most modern gun safes have a warranty of some sort with them. If your safe is less than 5 years old, there is a pretty good chance the safe is under warranty and the manufacturer will pay for someone to come out and open up your safe.

Please know, these warranties were NEVER meant to repair a safe sold as damaged by the retailer. Reputable safe retailers almost NEVER sell non-functioning safes. There has been a spate of big box stores selling safes that have been absolutely destroyed in their stores (Locked out, doors bent, boltwork damaged, etc) and the store is telling the customer "The manufacturer's warranty will cover that". THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!! Some of these repairs have slipped through the cracks, but do not be angry if you buy a destroyed safe, try to file a warranty claim and are told to go pound sand.

Option 1: Warranty Opening & Repair

If your safe is under warranty we highly recommend going through the manufacture's warranty process. I'd love to tell you it's a pain free, super fast process, but it's not. Here is how the process generally works:

1. Start by gathering your safe serial number (usually on a sticker on the top of the safe or on the back) prior to calling the manufacturer.
2. Call the manufacturer of your safe. You will need the serial number and (if you have it) the paperwork from when you bought the safe. Also, MAKE SURE YOU ARE NEAR YOUR SAFE WHEN YOU CALL.
   1. As a side note, you are welcome to call a shop like us, but there is NOTHING we can do that will be covered by warranty prior to us receiving the warranty repair order from the manufacturer.
3. The manufacturer will likely walk you through a similar diagnostic process as described above (Hence why you must be near your safe when you call the manufacture). Please don't be frustrated by this, the manufacturer has experienced the exact same things we have which is the vast majority of "problems" with safes are either battery related or related to consumer education/training.
4. Once the manufacturer has determined there is an issue with the safe they will generate a warranty repair order. Prior to creating the warranty repair order the manufacturer will reach out to a qualified technician for a warranty repair estimate. This is one of the delays in getting warranty repair work completed - the manufacturer must first get the estimate from the technician and then have this amount approved. This part of the process can take from 1 to 7 days alone.
5. Please know, sometimes manufacturers are willing - as a gesture of goodwill - to send locks and parts to customer's whose safes are out of the warranty period. Just because the manufacturer sends you parts does not mean your safe is covered by warranty, sometimes it's just them being nice and trying to help out a customer.
6. Parts, as necessary, are shipped to the technician.
7. Once the technician receives the parts the warranty repair is scheduled. Technicians do not generally schedule service calls until parts are in hand. Believe it or not, parts get lost, damaged or destroyed in transit. The more important the parts are the harder Fedex or UPS work to destroy them. There's not enough bubble wrap and cardboard in the world to protect against battle hardened shipping "professionals". Most of the good techs stay busy, but they also will prioritize customers with urgent needs. Expect a job to take 1-3 days to schedule one parts are in hand.
8. The technician will come out and open and repair your safe on the scheduled day and time.

A reasonable time expectation for a warranty opening and repair is 2-3 weeks. This is from the time you first call into the manufacturer and complete their diagnostic process to when the safe is opened and repaired by the technician. When you need the safe open "NOW" this does not seem reasonable at all, but it is the process for almost all of the major manufacturers. Some (like Amsec) are faster, but they have a 24hr call center and sell primarily commercial safes where speed is essential. Does this mean it will always take 2-3 weeks to complete a warranty repair? No, some can be done much faster if the stars align and the intravenous coffee drips attached to the good customer service folks are full of Death Wish Coffee, but it's rare. Also, yelling at the CS agent on the other end of the phone accomplishes nothing. Being kind costs nothing and often pays tremendous dividends.

Option 2: Non-Warranty Opening & Repair

If your safe is not covered by warranty, or if the warranty time frame outlined above is simply not going to work then the other option is non-warranty repair. This process is much faster, usually days instead of weeks, but it is not cheap.

1. Start by gathering your safe serial number (usually on a sticker on the top of the safe or on the back) prior to calling the technician.
2. Some companies (such as ourselves) start the process by having you fill out an online form.
3. A technician will ask you some basic questions and probably walk you through some variation of the diagnostic process described earlier. Once again, please be patient with this. The tech is trying to save you both time and money.
4. Once the existence of a problem has been verified the tech may request pictures of the safe. This is to identify the brand, age (roughly) model, hardware color (You do want your replacement lock to be the right color, correct?), working space around the safe, etc. At this juncture the tech probably knows what the problem is or has at least developed a theory or two about what the possible problem may be. Most techs won't discuss what they think the problem is until they are hands on with the safe and so the next step is the call-out:
5. Callouts, service calls, site visits, trip charges - all the same basic thing. This is what it costs for the technician to come onsite and diagnose your safe. I've seen callout fees as low as $50. In Atlanta, this is a BAD sign. If you are in rural Oklahoma, it's probably fine. But here in Atlanta (within 100 miles of downtown) it costs more to operate than this. Anything between $150-$350 is common and reasonable for a skilled, experienced tech.
6. The tech should also be able to provide an estimate for the entire repair. A call out with a lock replacement (depending on the lock) will generally run $300-$800 based on distance and difficulty. If the safe has to be drilled open and repaired the bill might be $500-$1200 depending on the safe (TL's can be MUCH more). Again, this is for a metro area in 2025 for an experienced specialist. You can always find somebody for less but you get what you pay for.
7. PRO TIP - Ask the technician how many safes and what type they have opened. Reputable techs open safes weekly in major metro areas, monthly in more rural areas. Most safe manufacturers also list which of their dealers are capable of drilling/opening safes.
8. On arrival, but prior to commencing work the technician they will generally ask for you to prove your ownership for the safe, verify your ID and possibly ask you to sign a waiver (we do, not everyone does).
9. If the safe contains items, the technician will generally require you to stay in the vicinity of the safe while they are opening and repairing it. This is both for the tech's safety (they don't want to be accused of stealing something) and your peace of mind. More than one safe has been opened by a safe technician and the owner found various items of financial value missing - ex-wives, girlfriends, kids - helping themselves we've seen it all.
10. Once the safe is opened by the technician they will repair and/or replace what is necessary. Sometimes safes have to be drilled open (I won't go into all the technical aspects), but if done properly and repaired properly the safe can actually be more secure AFTER the repair than before.

But Wait, There's MORE!

What if you never had to have an emergency service?

A few observations from over the years:

1. Most safes begin acting funny long before the locking mechanism ever fails. Customers oftentimes report batteries draining or dying more quickly, mechanical lock combination only working intermittently, etc. Despite the obvious warning signs they are generally ignored into a complete failure occurs.
2. Safe locks won't last forever. Electronic locks have a useful lifespan of 10-20 years. Mechanical locks are 20+ years.
3. If your electronic safe lock is over 15 years old, replace it. If your mechanical safe lock is over 20 years old, at least have it looked at. If the safe is not "mission critical" - meaning a failure does not cause a panic in your life or business, ride the locks till they die at your own risk.
4. Cheap electronic locks fail more often than expensive electronic locks. Locks on cheap safes tend to be cheaper than the locks on more expensive safes. Plan accordingly.

Hope some of this helps and saves at least a few people a headache in the future!

 

[The SafeMarket]

If You Are Thinking About Buying a Safe, Please Read!

An Ounce of Prevention

Safes can be confusing. The vast array of makes, models, manufacturers, security levels, lock options, etc, combined with the online hyperbole, opinions and plethora manufacturer marketing ploys creates an exceedingly difficult market to try to understand.

The frustration caused by a) knowing you are about to spend a lot of money b) not having a clear answer to many questions and c) understanding the wrong choice has real consequences can make for a not so great buying experience.

1. Understand Your Needs First.

Size: How big of a safe do you really need. Whatever the quantity of long guns you want to store (say, 20), double that number. A "40 gun" safe will generally hold 20 long guns comfortable. Sure, you can stack them in there like cordwood and get more, but it will be a PITA to get them out.

Be realistic about other things going in the safe too. I've worked on an untold number of safes over the years that contain zero firearms whatsoever. In fact, a significant percentage of residential grade safes sold today (not just our local experience, but nationally) are for everything but firearms.

When comparing safes from different manufacturers, realize that if two models are within a few inches of each other in width and depth, they are going to hold the same number of long guns. It doesn't matter if one is advertised as "72 gun" and the other is advertised as "50 gun", always check the dimensions to cut through the marketing.

Location: Where in the home or business do you want the safe to go? Oftentimes larger safes can be delivered to difficult or hard to reach locations in the home, but sometimes they can't. If there is a stair case involved, if there is a hill leading to a basement, if the outside door(s) are not at least 3-0 doors, if their is a tight turn off a hallway - all of these constrictions will reduce the size of the safe that can be installed in your preferred location.

Smaller safes - usually 60"H x 30"W x 22"D, 800# or less - can be delivered to most parts of the home. As safes get larger, especially as they go to full depth (usually 26"-28") and full width (42"+) options quickly become narrowed to main floor (3 or fewer stairs), garage, shop, drive around basement or a basement with a *reasonable* hill (the installer's definition of reasonable, not yours).

If you are considering a larger safe and your installation location is somewhat difficult to reach, far better to speak with the installer PRIOR to falling in love with a particular model or size. This could save you a LOT of time, headache and cost.

Security & Fire Protection: For most safes these go hand in hand now. As security goes up, so does fire protection. There are some exceptions to this rule, such as UL rated fire safes (tremendous fire protection but RSC level security) or B,C,E,F rate containers that have security but no fire protection. For all the major RSC & RSCII manufacturers - Liberty, Amsec, Rhino, Ft. Knox, Browning, etc - fire and security go hand in hand. Some of the direct to consumer companies like Pendleton, Sturdy, Brown and a few others offer plate body safes with no fire protection.

Define The Threat: Be specific on what you want to defend against. No, a RSC will not keep out a band of robbers who bring battery powered sawzalls, holesaws, stacks of blades and a plan. A quality commercial safe will just laugh at them.

We define threats as either residential threats or commercial threats.

Residential Threat (Residential Security Container): The burglar does not know you have a safe, does not know what is in the safe and does not come prepared to attack the safe. Even if the burglar finds the safe, finds your tools (remember, he didn't bring any tools), and has enough time to play safe cracker (he doesn't want to get caught more than he wants in the safe), it is highly doubtful anything he or she does will come close to compromising the safe.​

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Commercial Threat (Tool-Rated): These are attacks of near perfect information, meaning the burglar knows you have a safe, knows exactly what the safe is (make, model, size), knows the location of the safe, knows what is in the safe (they are properly motivated to break in), knows what tools are required to break into the safe AND brings the tools. For example, jewelry stores or coin shops oftentimes have the safe(s) in plain view to customers, there is no question about what the safe is, where it is at or what is inside.​

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RSC's comprise a vast array of safes from very basic to advanced models with a surprising amount of security and fire protection. A high end RSC will defeat the vast majority of criminals, even some of those that come prepared and motivated. That said, don't ask an RSC to defeat a commercial threat and don't expect a commercially rated safe to go most places customers want an RSC (upstairs bedrooms, main floors over a basement, up or down multiple flights of stairs, etc) - they just much too heavy.

Lastly, the only thing a safe ever does is buy time. If you don't have an alarm system, you need one. If you don't have security cameras, you need them. Alarms and cameras are ridiculously cheap now. If your driving concern is an outside threat I strongly urge you to get an alarm (at least) and/or cameras before getting a safe.

Budget: A good safe is not going to be cheap. Most new, quality, domestically produced RSCs are going to start around $2,000 and go up from there.

Yes, there are foreign made safes that are less money that have an RSC rating - BUYER BEWARE!!!. Are there a few of these foreign made safes that are probably pretty good all things considered? Sure, just because a safe is made outside the USA doesn't mean it's bad. Some of them are actually pretty decent.

Please understand, the reason the safes are made elsewhere and not here is because of price, mainly, how cheap can the safe be made. The next thing the manufacturer does is ask how much cheaper can we make it now? IF you decide on an import safe, at least buy one made by one of the mainline domestic RSC manufacturers as they have real customer service departments. The direct to consumer companies (the ones that only do import safes) are experts at blaming customers and blocking phone numbers when problems arise.

If you have a few firearms, a new kid is on the way and you are worried about locking them up, $2,000 can seem impossible. I think most of us have been there. Don't stress. There are still a plethora of options under this price point that will secure guns from kiddie fingers, nosey neighbors and most smash and grab types. If you budget is under this, for sure prioritize a home alarm and please, please, please anchor the safe.

If you don't care about looks and function is the only concern, used safes can offer tremendous value. The body of the safe is just a steel box. Boltwork will likely need to be serviced and consider changing out the lock to a new one, but after this the safe should give years of trouble free service.

The average sales price in the safe industry as a whole (so think everything from the dedicated safe retailers to the big box stores) is only around $1,500/unit. The average purchaser of a gun safe (I'm using the term "safe" loosely), is not purchasing an RSC or is buying one produced outside the US.

2. Find Your Safe Guru First

Fall in love with your safe retailer first before you fall in love with a safe. Imagine falling in love with a brand of safe and then discovering you can't stand talking with the local company that sells them!

From a security and fire protection perspective there is a great deal of interchangeability between domestically produced safes of similar construction. If two safes are made of the same gauge of steel, have the same number of layers of fireboard, and the published weights are close to each - most of the difference is not going to be fire or security related. There can be important differences between makes and models, just think of this as a quick tool to cut through a lot of the marketing malarky. Please know, no amount of marketing changes geometry, the laws of thermodynamics or the modulus of steel.

Local safe and vault retailers are the experts in your market area and most will only carry one or two brands of safes. Find a company or person (a lot of shops are only one or two people) that will listen to you, answer your questions and be an educator first as opposed to a high pressure salesman.

Likewise, a retailer that offers both delivery and after sales service is preferable to one that does not. This keeps third parties out of the equation and lines of responsibility clear. If a company sells, delivers and services what they stock, they are going to be in a better position to serve you irregardless of the needs that arise.

3. Ask Questions, But be Prepared for Answers

Ask questions before buying, but be prepared for the answers you will receive. For example, a customer has indicated that lock reliability is the single most important thing to them and they ask the question: "What is the most reliable type of lock?" Answer: Mechanical. Generally a S&G 6730, S&G 6630 or Big Red CDL3 . Customer then states, "I don't like mechanical locks, they are too difficult, I want a digital lock".

We certainly understand, most RSC's sold today are sold with digital locks. Digital locks offer a tremendous amount of convenience to the user, but they do not last forever. At the end of the day, it is a digital device and it will one day no longer function. Personal preference is important when buying a safe - it must work for you! But understand personal preference does not make something true or untrue.

Sometimes what a customer is looking for just does not exist at the price point the customer wishes it existed at. During the 2020-2023 time frame the industry as a whole say price increases between 60% and 75%, and sticker shock for both new and returning customers has been very real. This wasn't just one manufacturer, this was all of them. Some went first, others followed, but in the end they all went up about the same amount.

The best suggestion I can make is to prioritize various aspects of the safe purchase, size, budget, location, lock preference, color preference, speed (is the safe in stock or does it have to be made) etc. Rank these according to their importance and as you ask your questions mark what deviations from your preference you are willing to accept, or not.


4. The Most Important Question and the Most Important Answer

What is the right safe for YOU?

Will the safe hold what you need it to hold? Can the safe be installed in a place where you are actually going to use the thing? Hint, your spouse is probably not trekking to the basement every morning to get her jewelry. Will the color bug you every time you look at it, or do you just not care because the thing is in the shop in the backyard?

There is tons of great advice out there, but if it doesn't apply to you and your use case it's just confusing noise.

The goal of this process (despite the wordiness of it all), is that by defining the most important needs you have and then prioritizing them, the answer - which safe is the best fit - should be become easily apparent. We've found this process is brand agnostic and results in the customer finding the best fit for them.