That info is a good start for identity theft, possible burglary especially if you ask for DL number.
I'll pass on any deal requiring a BOS.
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Selling/trading firearms privately in Georgia... legal requirements.
- Thread starter Farmer_1
- Start date
That info is a good start for identity theft, possible burglary especially if you ask for DL number.
I'll pass on any deal requiring a BOS.
and a bill of sale would not prevent this from happening in any way. Officers could very well show up your house and ask who you sold it to, if they were investigating a crime. but you still wont be held accountable unless you knowingly sold it to a felon or someone you knew was going to use it for a crime. hell you could just tell them you got **** memory and cant remember who the hell it was!
I put what I sold/traded/bought in my feedback so that I remember where things came from or went. That’s about the extent of my bill of sale lol.
I was told by an FFL holder that there is no national gun registry. The only official record of who bought a gun from an FFL dealer is the 4473 form, which is housed in the records/files of the FFL. It is my understanding that for ATF/Law enforcement to trace a particular firearm, it starts with the manufacture, who has a record of the distributor they sold it to, who has a record of the FFL dealer they sold it to, who has a record of the customer they sold it to.
So, a firearm can be traced back to the original buyer who completed the 4473, most likely. I'm sure they are not able to trace all firearms used in crimes.
Look,
Farmer_1
, you sound like you're coming from a place of genuine concern, so let me lay it out for you very simply. No matter how you or anyone else feels, a bill of sale is 100% a completely worthless piece of paper. It puts your identity and information in the hands of an effective stranger and affords you absolutely zero legal protection. In the state of Georgia all you are legally required to do is establish that the buyer of the firearm is a resident of this state and that you have no reason to believe they are a prohibited person. That's it.
Best of luck to you.
Farmer_1
, you sound like you're coming from a place of genuine concern, so let me lay it out for you very simply. No matter how you or anyone else feels, a bill of sale is 100% a completely worthless piece of paper. It puts your identity and information in the hands of an effective stranger and affords you absolutely zero legal protection. In the state of Georgia all you are legally required to do is establish that the buyer of the firearm is a resident of this state and that you have no reason to believe they are a prohibited person. That's it.Best of luck to you.
1) Don't keep records of who you sold guns to unless you're running a business.
2) Don't talk to the police.
2) Don't talk to the police.
Farmer, you asked a question about the law on ODT, so you're going to get a bunch of jackwagons coming in here and giving their uninformed ignorant opinions. Mostly based on feelings and political positions, but without any regard to what the law itself is.
A few quick points--
1: there is no requirement for a bill of sale or other paperwork between private parties who are residents of the same state. You can sell guns to an anonymous stranger based on a meeting in a dark alley, a handshake, and an envelope full of $20 bills if that's how you want to do business.
2: If you sell a gun to somebody and that gun is later used in a crime, and the police identify you as the last known owner of that gun, you had better be able to explain how and when you ended your position and ownership of that gun . Otherwise, you will be a suspect. And if the cops expect some proof to back up your story about how you sold the gun, and yet you have no proof, you will probably remain a suspect a lot longer than you should .
3. In theory, just having owned that crime gun at sometime in the past should not be sufficient evidence for police to arrest you which had to be based on "probable cause."
Nor should the cops be able to get a search warrant for your home, your car, your computers and smart phones, if the cops have nothing to go on other than a years-old ATF Form 4473 that shows you bought the gun from an FFL dealer back then. Those facts and circumstances alone will not make the "probable cause" standard for magistrates issuing search warrants.
But, it COULD HAPPEN. Some judges hand out search warrants the way moms hand out popsicles to their kids on summer days.
A few quick points--
1: there is no requirement for a bill of sale or other paperwork between private parties who are residents of the same state. You can sell guns to an anonymous stranger based on a meeting in a dark alley, a handshake, and an envelope full of $20 bills if that's how you want to do business.
2: If you sell a gun to somebody and that gun is later used in a crime, and the police identify you as the last known owner of that gun, you had better be able to explain how and when you ended your position and ownership of that gun . Otherwise, you will be a suspect. And if the cops expect some proof to back up your story about how you sold the gun, and yet you have no proof, you will probably remain a suspect a lot longer than you should .
3. In theory, just having owned that crime gun at sometime in the past should not be sufficient evidence for police to arrest you which had to be based on "probable cause."
Nor should the cops be able to get a search warrant for your home, your car, your computers and smart phones, if the cops have nothing to go on other than a years-old ATF Form 4473 that shows you bought the gun from an FFL dealer back then. Those facts and circumstances alone will not make the "probable cause" standard for magistrates issuing search warrants.
But, it COULD HAPPEN. Some judges hand out search warrants the way moms hand out popsicles to their kids on summer days.
Okay, well, thanks for all the comments. I appreciate it.
Like I said, I have noticed that a lot of ODT members do not require a BOS on firearms and some do. I guess I'm one of those that do. And, like I said, I don't buy, sell or trade firearms privately very often. But I do ask for a BOS, and not just for firearms, but when I buy most anything used, especially if it cost a lot.
Besides, it seems to me that most firearms for sale by private sellers are not priced that much lower than what you could buy the same gun, new, from a FFL gun store, or an online seller and have it shipped to an FFL for transfer.
On the other hand, a lot of gun enthusiast just like to buy, sell and trade as a hobby, I suppose.
Thanks again for all the comments and opinions!
Like I said, I have noticed that a lot of ODT members do not require a BOS on firearms and some do. I guess I'm one of those that do. And, like I said, I don't buy, sell or trade firearms privately very often. But I do ask for a BOS, and not just for firearms, but when I buy most anything used, especially if it cost a lot.
Besides, it seems to me that most firearms for sale by private sellers are not priced that much lower than what you could buy the same gun, new, from a FFL gun store, or an online seller and have it shipped to an FFL for transfer.
On the other hand, a lot of gun enthusiast just like to buy, sell and trade as a hobby, I suppose.
Thanks again for all the comments and opinions!
4.) The law recognizes two kinds of bad actions ---crimes and torts. "Crimes" can get you arrested. Doing a "tort" can get you sued if somebody is later injured as a consequence of your negligent behavior.
Is it negligent, or even reckless, to sell a gun to a random stranger based on the late night meeting next to the dumpster in the parking lot of a waffle house? With no ID check, no questions, no bill of sale?
I don't know that the courts have ever taken up this question and considered it and given us a clear answer ---so right now I would have to say "probably not" there is no liability for selling a gun to another Georgia resident that way. But you could become the FIRST gun seller to have his case work its way up through the courts. The ruling in your case, could clarify the question for future generations, and it may or may not go in your favor (our favor).
Is it negligent, or even reckless, to sell a gun to a random stranger based on the late night meeting next to the dumpster in the parking lot of a waffle house? With no ID check, no questions, no bill of sale?
I don't know that the courts have ever taken up this question and considered it and given us a clear answer ---so right now I would have to say "probably not" there is no liability for selling a gun to another Georgia resident that way. But you could become the FIRST gun seller to have his case work its way up through the courts. The ruling in your case, could clarify the question for future generations, and it may or may not go in your favor (our favor).
