SIG P320 "voluntary upgrade" program

[spencer60]

The newest version is the FN 509. Very nice handgun, I like it a lot.

I played around with the 509 but as an existing FNS owner I couldn't see moving off to it. For someone new looking for a duty-sized gun, I could definitely see it though. Just be aware that FNS holsters don't fit it per the FN rep at the NRA show.

As someone who carries an FNS every day, the biggest attraction of the 509 is that Apex is making a trigger for it that will be backwards compatible with the FNS guns...

 

[rhaney02]

This may take a while for us. Everyone knows the P320s sold in France will take priority....

 

[paliknight]

The newest version is the FN 509. Very nice handgun, I like it a lot.

hows it compare to the G19 for EDC?

 

[cmshoot]

hows it compare to the G19 for EDC?

Not easy to comparE, as the sizes are different. The full-size FN 509/FNS-9 is a bit bigger than the G19, while the FNS-9 Compact is a bit smaller than the G19.

Standard magazine capacity for the FNS-9 Compact is 12rds. Neat thing about it is they ship it with two of the 12rd mags and one of the 17Rd full-size mags.

 

[paliknight]

Not easy to comparE, as the sizes are different. The full-size FN 509/FNS-9 is a bit bigger than the G19, while the FNS-9 Compact is a bit smaller than the G19.

Standard magazine capacity for the FNS-9 Compact is 12rds. Neat thing about it is they ship it with two of the 12rd mags and one of the 17Rd full-size mags.

damn i dont want any bigger than the 19 for EDC. might check out the FNS9c then. or i might bite the bullet on the CZ P10C

 

[spencer60]

damn i dont want any bigger than the 19 for EDC. might check out the FNS9c then. or i might bite the bullet on the CZ P10C

The standard 'duty' FNS is almost exactly the same size as the 19. The Compact is a little shorter in the slide and 26-ish in the grip.

 

[gh1950]

I'm sure liability is an issue here. That's kind of what surprises me about SIG telling people to continue carrying a firearm that has a known issue.

Why?

There are all sorts of firearms out there with "known" issues.

The first that come to mind are the Colt SAA clones with no hammer block. Load them with 6 rounds, and they present a risk that's been known for 150 years.

Just because Ruger weenied out on the issue, it still exists.

 

[spencer60]

Why?

There are all sorts of firearms out there with "known" issues. The first that come to mind are the Colt SAA clones with no hammer block. Load them with 6 rounds, and they present a risk that's been known for 150 years.

Just because Ruger weenied out on the issue, it still exists.

LOL... Go ahead and sue John Browning because the 1911 as he designed it isn't drop safe.

The fact is that any gun made today has to meet certain safety standards or it presents a huge legal liability for the manufacturer. That's even true for older designs made today. Most 1911s are now drop-safe through a couple of different methods, and most 'cowboy' guns incorporate transfer bars.

SIG has a defective gun on their hands here, plain and simple. The gun fires when dropped, and has already injured at least one person. Telling people to keep carrying it is the height of legal stupidity.

I'm not sure where the Ruger comment came from though. If you are talking about my earlier comment about how I think Ruger did a much better job addressing an issue than SIG has so far, than I'll take a company 'weenie-ing out' like that any day.

 

[cmshoot]

LOL... Go ahead and sue John Browning because the 1911 as he designed it isn't drop safe.

The fact is that any gun made today has to meet certain safety standards or it presents a huge legal liability for the manufacturer. That's even true for older designs made today. Most 1911s are now drop-safe through a couple of different methods, and most 'cowboy' guns incorporate transfer bars.

SIG has a defective gun on their hands here, plain and simple. The gun fires when dropped, and has already injured at least one person. Telling people to keep carrying it is the height of legal stupidity.

I'm not sure where the Ruger comment came from though. If you are talking about my earlier comment about how I think Ruger did a much better job addressing an issue than SIG has so far, than I'll take a company 'weenie-ing out' like that any day.

Not necessarily true. Plenty of companies still make "Series 70" 1911's; Springfield Armory, for one, and they're arguably the largest manufacturer of 1911's today. Hammer down, on half-cock, or cocked-and-locked, drop a Series 70-type 1911 on the muzzle and you've got a recipe for an inertia fire. All the big name custom 1911 companies I can think of are the same; Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. Colt has even brought back numerous Series 70 1911 models at the request of customers. On the low end market, the Rock Island Armory 1911's are also of the Series 70-type; this goes for all the other budget priced 1911's being made in that same plant in the Philippines.

The Browning Hi Power has the same chance for a muzzle-dropped inertia fire as the Series 70-type 1911's.

Colt still makes the Single Action Army the same way they have for over 140 years. Load a round under the hammer and drop it on the hammer, dang good chance of it discharging. This goes for all the Italian-made replicas from Cimmaron, Beretta, Armi San Marco, and others. This is why in SASS-sanctioned matches, you can only load 5 rounds in your revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber. This is regardless of manufacturer or safeties.

 

[spencer60]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that all the currently produced 1911s used lightweight firing pins if they used the original (series 70) action.

And I'll admit that guns that are historical reproductions will be an exception. But the folks who purchase those are typically very aware of the safety issues (i.e. your example of only loading 5 rounds).

BTW, I'd be surprised if Ruger isn't the #1 manufacturer of 1911s by volume these days. Can't say for sure they are, but just based on their pistol sales numbers it seems likely.