• ODT Gun Show & Swap Meet - May 4, 2024! - Click here for info

Tactics vs. Law

GAgunLAWbooklet

Default rank 5000+ posts
The Hen that laid the Golden Legos
63   0
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
18,671
Reaction score
19,642
Location
Alpharetta, GA
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/sheriff-gun-pulled-at-douglas-county-dog-park


An elderly white man is walking his dog at the dog park he gets into a confrontation with a black couple, and they accuse his dog of biting one of their dogs.
There is a verbal confrontation and apparently the black man of the couple advanced on the white guy as if he were going to physically attack him.
The white guy pulled out his pistol (he had a valid carry license) to make the angry blacks keep their distance and not assault him.

When the cops showed up, the black man was so out of control angry that the cops had to rough him up and detain him while doing their investigation.

But, it ended with the white man being arrested-- although not for aggravated assault charges, which would be the normal charge you would expect for improperly pulling a gun on another in a way that is not justified under George's laws of using or threatening to use deadly force.

He was charged with "Pointing a gun at another" which is based on the testimony of the blacks who were his adversaries in the confrontation. This allegation was not backed up by any video or photographs from witnesses at the scene --all of their photographic evidence indicates the white man drew the weapon and held it down pointed either straight down by his own feet, or pointing at the ground at a 45° angle halfway between him and the people confronting him.

Perhaps the misdemeanor crime of "pointing a gun at another" doesn't really fit the facts if the muzzle of that gun did not point toward another person, but it may be a compromise. The cops are charging him with a low level crime (misdemeanor) that doesn't really fit the facts because a much more serious crime (felony agg. assault) that would fit the facts seems like too serious of a charge for this incident and the level of culpability of the "victims."
 
The reason i'm posting it in the "tactics & training" section of ODT is that most tactical instructors will tell you that the fastest draw is to have your gun in your hand before you're attacked. But legally that can get you in trouble if you don't have a green light to actually shoot. Rarely will you have legal justification to draw a gun and point it at them until you ARE actively under attack, and not even always then if you're only facing a barehanded opponent that might want to slap you around but not kill or cripple you. Using deadly force against non-deadly physicsl force is forbidden under our law --you can't shoot somebody to avoid getting your ass kicked.
 
Aggravated assault requires intent to murder, rape, or rob. Nothing in the facts as described in the OP support an aggravated assault charge.

We address this very issue in my Defensive Pistol Skills and Applied Pistolcraft classes.
 
The reason i'm posting it in the "tactics & training" section of ODT is that most tactical instructors will tell you that the fastest draw is to have your gun in your hand before you're attacked. But legally that can get you in trouble if you don't have a green light to actually shoot. Rarely will you have legal justification to draw a gun and point it at them until you ARE actively under attack, and not even always then if you're only facing a barehanded opponent that might want to slap you around but not kill or cripple you. Using deadly force against non-deadly physicsl force is forbidden under our law --you can't shoot somebody to avoid getting your ass kicked.


But at what point in the arse whooping does it go from a fight to fear for your life. Every person is differnet. If you are being beaten, the attacker may not stop and could kill you or cause serious bodily harm. I do agree someone punches you, that is NOT cause for deadly force.
 
Guy shows his ass.
You stand your ground.
They haul your butt in for doing so.
I'd want so many lawyers, I couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting one.
 
Aggravated assault requires intent to murder, rape, or rob. Nothing in the facts as described in the OP support an aggravated assault charge.

We address this very issue in my Defensive Pistol Skills and Applied Pistolcraft classes.


Really??? "REQUIRES intent to murder, rape, or rob "???
That's what you teach the definition of aggravated assault is?

You need to go back and re-read the statute, because there's actually more to it than that. You cited just one of several alternative definitions of aggravated assault.
I hope your class teaches the other avenues, with other sets of elements of this offense.
See OCGA 16-5-21 (a)(2) and (a)(3).
 
There are many cases from appellate courts upholding convictions based on committing an "assault" ( which means putting a person in reasonable fear that they're about to receive an injury) and "aggravated assault" which is what would otherwise be simple assault but using a deadly weapon such as a gun.

These types of cases are by far the most common; prosecutors rarely charge aggravated assault by alleging in the indictment that the person assaulted with intent to murder, rape, or rob.
 
The reason i'm posting it in the "tactics & training" section of ODT is that most tactical instructors will tell you that the fastest draw is to have your gun in your hand before you're attacked. But legally that can get you in trouble if you don't have a green light to actually shoot. Rarely will you have legal justification to draw a gun and point it at them until you ARE actively under attack, and not even always then if you're only facing a barehanded opponent that might want to slap you around but not kill or cripple you. Using deadly force against non-deadly physicsl force is forbidden under our law --you can't shoot somebody to avoid getting your ass kicked.

This is one of those b.s. charges cops use when they can't find a real charge - sort of like "weaving in your lane" .

The law as written is a stupid law. But the point is well made that when you pull a gun out, the other parties are going to swear that you pointed it at them. So the cops are going to arrest you, because clearly you are a dangerous person. Every gun owner should be aware of this law.

Using deadly force against non-deadly physicsl force is forbidden under our law --you can't shoot somebody to avoid getting your ass kicked.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.

Georgia law on self defense states "a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

I'm old, have bad knees, and if someone gets in my face, tells me he is going to kick my ass, and draws back to throw a punch, I reasonably believe I am about to incur great bodily injury to myself, and I am about to prevent the commission of forcible felony. Nothing in Georgia law says that the forcible felony has to actually occur before the use of deadly force is authorized. The self defense law using "to prevent" twice, showing that the framers clearly did not require the felony to occur or be in progress.

Here are two cases discussed by District Attorney and I refer to the case of Delores Gibson-Council.
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/local/verify-what-justifies-self-defense-in-georgia/389340538

In the interest of fair and accurate reporting, Elizabeth Cannon was convicted by a jury of aggravated assault and sentenced to 15 years in the penitentiary. Note though there was no corroborating evidence at all that the deceased had committed, or threatened to commit any forcible felony.

https://www.macon.com/news/local/crime/article207803754.html
 
Aggravated assault requires intent to murder, rape, or rob. Nothing in the facts as described in the OP support an aggravated assault charge.

We address this very issue in my Defensive Pistol Skills and Applied Pistolcraft classes.

How exactly can you tell if an unarmed person intends to murder you? Strangulation, blunt trauma from kicking to the head, the rock next to the path, ect... Even if the person doesnt show it ATM it could escalate quickly if it comes to trading punches.
 
Back
Top Bottom