What if HR.8 Passes

[Kodiak42]

I created this thread mainly because I am curious of yall’s thoughts as to how this will affect member of ODT specifically. I’m sure ODT could remain a discussion forum, but I am sure we would see a drop in active members if the site were to have to drop the trade portion of the forum. It would be really sad to see this community fade away. I have lived in a few other states and have never found something as active in discussions or trades nor as nice of a site from a technical perspective. To get us starts I have a few points and my thoughts on the matter.

1) My first thought is: Just because person to person transaction would technically be illegal, this doesn’t necessarily mean we could not have a trade forum, it would just require the two parties meet at a retail location. However, I am nervous that despite discussion of trades not being illegal, feds might crack down on sites where that occurs.

2) Secondly, it seems like transactions where atleast one party has a C&R license would be legal despite there not being a background check required at the time of the transaction. Do you think this will be the case? If so maybe the trade forums will be limited to C&R holders and retail FFL holders?

3) Lastly, would it be legal and could be pay collectively to have a dedicated retail FFL to run all of the trade forum transactions and after the background check is conducted, the two parties could meet and trade?

 

[joeldworkin307]

I lived in Colorado when private sale background checks were enacted. Private sales just went through FFLs for the most part and it was annoying, but manageable. The forums kept on running. The problem is if someone get's denied then YOU have to go through a background check to get your gun back. Happened to me once and I was pissed at the non-buyer. Some people kept on selling person to person and, as far as I know, nobody was ever arrested for it because it's functionally unenforceable. Feds aren't running sting operations on single gun sales and local PD doesn't give a rat's ass.

 

[blazedawg87]

I lived in Colorado when private sale background checks were enacted. Private sales just went through FFLs for the most part and it was annoying, but manageable. The forums kept on running. The problem is if someone get's denied then YOU have to go through a background check to get your gun back. Happened to me once and I was pissed at the non-buyer. Some people kept on selling person to person and, as far as I know, nobody was ever arrested for it because it's functionally unenforceable. Feds aren't running sting operations on single gun sales and local PD doesn't give a rat's ass.

That is my thoughts. How is it actually enforceable without running a sting operation? Drug deals happen every second and few of them are ever caught and even then it takes someone being undercover most time to catch them in the act.

 

[Dodge man]

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

The thread title is "what if H.R. 8 passes?" and yet there's no link to this bill, nor any summary of it.
So, how are we supposed to have any intelligent response?

I guess none is needed or expected.
I'll just thump my hairy chest and scream "... COME AND TAKE THEM"
or "... FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!"


'Murica !!!

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/8/all-info

OK, so this is a gun-control bill that has a lot of support from Democrats and a few liberal Republicans.

I can't easily find the full text of the actual bill as it is proposed today, but here's a short summary from the Congress.gov website:

Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019

This bill establishes new background check requirements for firearm transfers between private parties (i.e., unlicensed individuals).

Specifically, it prohibits a firearm transfer between private parties unless a licensed gun dealer, manufacturer, or importer first takes possession of the firearm to conduct a background check.

The prohibition does not apply to certain firearm transfers, such as a gift between spouses in good faith.

*******************
If that's all that it does, I suppose life on ODT will go on. Plenty of people will be advertising guns for sale / WTB / Trade, but now some of us will say "Must be transferred through an FFL dealership in GA and __________ pays the fee."
Others of us on ODT will not say anything about an FFL dealer and will instead just meet up and hand over the gun for cash, just like before, thus breaking the law, and nobody will notice.

Up until some gun illegally sold in an ODT deal that didn't involve meeting at a local FFL's place of business GETS USED IN SOME INFAMOUS CRIME, at which point the feds might investigate ODT and arrest a bunch of our longtime members (a lot of new ones, too, but nobody will miss THEM...), and maybe even seek a Court order enjoining (shutting down, through an injunction) the ODT website for being a facilitator of crimes and turning a blind eye to rampant criminal activity.

Then, and only then, would it really impact me much.

If I want to sell a pistol right after H.R. 8 takes effect, I'll still list it here, and anybody can buy it, provided that we complete the deal at an agreed-upon brick-and-mortar FFL shop.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I've never used ODT's classifieds to try to do an end-round around federal point-of-sale laws, nor to avoid any background check, nor to hide myself from any "paper trail" that might connect me to a gun, nor to do a "straw purchase" to help arm somebody who couldn't buy a gun themselves directly.

So, my use of ODT's classifieds would still go on.

 

[41mag]

I've never used ODT's classifieds to try to do an end-round around federal point-of-sale laws, nor to avoid any background check, nor to hide myself from any "paper trail" that might connect me to a gun, nor to do a "straw purchase" to help arm somebody who couldn't buy a gun themselves directly.

So, my use of ODT's classifieds would still go on.

Nice CYA/disclaimer- I need to put that in my sales ads , lol.

 

[atljetmech]

I asked my dad once when I was a little kid:
What if my aunt had balls dad?

He simply replied:
Well then I reckon she'd be your uncle!

 

[zesty]

I created this thread mainly because I am curious of yall’s thoughts as to how this will affect member of ODT specifically. I’m sure ODT could remain a discussion forum, but I am sure we would see a drop in active members if the site were to have to drop the trade portion of the forum. It would be really sad to see this community fade away. I have lived in a few other states and have never found something as active in discussions or trades nor as nice of a site from a technical perspective. To get us starts I have a few points and my thoughts on the matter.

1) My first thought is: Just because person to person transaction would technically be illegal, this doesn’t necessarily mean we could not have a trade forum, it would just require the two parties meet at a retail location. However, I am nervous that despite discussion of trades not being illegal, feds might crack down on sites where that occurs.

2) Secondly, it seems like transactions where atleast one party has a C&R license would be legal despite there not being a background check required at the time of the transaction. Do you think this will be the case? If so maybe the trade forums will be limited to C&R holders and retail FFL holders?

3) Lastly, would it be legal and could be pay collectively to have a dedicated retail FFL to run all of the trade forum transactions and after the background check is conducted, the two parties could meet and trade?

I believe there are 3 goals for UBC
- Background check for everyone that buys a firearm
- Backdoor way to track who has what firearms (not quite registry but it's a step)
- Make buying and selling privately undesirable to slow the flow of guns and raise prices overall (make it cost more and a general pain)

So to answer your questions, IMO...
1) I'm not worried about crack downs for a legal forum, but the decreased private trading will hurt the site. ODT will survive though because the forum is good.
2) No way. We'll have to go to a retail FFL
3) I can't imagine anyone wanting to take on that risk but no way it'd be legal anyway.