Woman killed by her own 2 dogs while on a walk?

[Fatal_Bert]

Yes, that's what I wrote. Thanks for emphasizing the point.

However, we don't live in an anarchic society. We live in a society of laws. We choose to vest powers in representative government, for the purpose of resolving or reducing conflict where the freedom of multiple parties would otherwise collide. We also embrace freedom of speech. The women behind dogsbite.org, or Gabby Giffords, have the right to advocate for whatever they see fit. You don't have to like them. You don't have to agree with them. But their right to do so is absolute. Much more so than your right to own an animal that society believes is a genuine threat to public safety. Don't believe me? See if you can find a rattlesnake for sale anywhere, and whether or not you can lawfully keep one as a domestic companion. Every one of the 50 states has laws limiting ownership of such things (there's that pesky 10th Amendment). Such laws have been validated by court decisions, local, state and federal, many times.

Sure she has a right to advocate whatever she wants, the problem is when people think there bias little colored charts are real scientific research.

Dogbites.org's mission is to promote breed specific legislation based on the feelings of looney soccer mom's. Let's take a look at a list of every single legitimate dogs related organizations stance on breed specific legislation (even the CDC).

https://stopbsl.org/bsloverview/the-lack-of-professional-support/#aba

Literally none of them support breed specific legislation as a way to reduce dog bites or fatalities.

 

[BamaFan]

Countering info from dogbite.org with a website called stopbsl.org seems a little disingenuous. The pro side can pick their facts just as the anti side can pick theirs. Personally I'm still more worried about the hot dogs but I haven't seen anything in this thread that I would call "science" from either side. Admittedly I was the first person to throw out stats from dogbite.org not knowing they were allegedly so biased (I still don't know that they're wrong, but it sounds like they could be). I do know that while this thread has been going on, another mauling occurred resulting in injury and death.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Countering info from dogbite.org with a website called stopbsl.org seems a little disingenuous. The pro side can pick their facts just as the anti side can pick theirs. Personally I'm still more worried about the hot dogs but I haven't seen anything in this thread that I would call "science" from either side. Admittedly I was the first person to throw out stats from dogbite.org not knowing they were allegedly so biased (I still don't know that they're wrong, but it sounds like they could be). I do know that while this thread has been going on, another mauling occurred resulting in injury and death.

I can see that. I can link each organization individually but it would take forever and that link has them all compiled.

Here's the American Veterinarians Medicine Associations stance on BSL.

https://www.avma.org/public/Pages/Why-Breed-Specific-Legislation-is-not-the-Answer.aspx

 

[BamaFan]

I can see that. I can link each organization individually but it would take forever and that link has them all compiled.

Here's the American Veterinarians Medicine Associations stance on BSL.

https://www.avma.org/public/Pages/Why-Breed-Specific-Legislation-is-not-the-Answer.aspx

Same reason I didn't verify the dogbite.org stats. They seem to come from verified media reports but there is no way to know if the media properly identified the dog in the first place. Unfortunately this is not an argument where "reason" will prevail because both sides are emotionally invested (like a lot of arguments, I guess...). I will say I have learned a lot from you pit lovers in this thread. I still don't want one but it's always good to learn something new.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Same reason I didn't verify the dogbite.org stats. They seem to come from verified media reports but there is no way to know if the media properly identified the dog in the first place. Unfortunately this is not an argument where "reason" will prevail because both sides are emotionally invested (like a lot of arguments, I guess...). I will say I have learned a lot from you pit lovers in this thread. I still don't want one but it's always good to learn something new.

I appreciate you being open minded. I know I probably come across as a smart ass about the dogsbite.org thing and I apologise if I did.

And for the record I'll concede that pitbull type dogs are the most troublesome breed currently in America. It's a problem, but it's a people problem not a breed problem. They are being over bred by some of the worst most irresponsible people in our society.

What I always argue against is people who think there's some magical part of a PitBulls brain that is unique form other dogs and can trigger them to kill at anytime.

 

[Dundee]

Talk about an argument getting bogged down.
I'm thinking about the next dog for my family at the moment. I have liked having a hyper-vigilant dog that alerts me that I might need to take care of things myself. I'm not looking for an animal to take over that duty. But, having had this hyper-sensitive 17 pound alarm system, my first time ever having a smaller dog, I'd like to go back to what I'm used to, a more robust, larger dog. My boy is at the age where this is the type of dog I want him to have to romp around with, an have the chance to grow up with and look back on as one of the best things about growing up. I'm thinking about a pit, doberman or catahoula bulldog.
I'm comfortable with the responsibillty of having a dog with greater physical capabilities than the norm. Hell, I take the responsibility seriously enough that if a dog of mine killed someone, I would expect to be charged as if I had gunned them down myself. People argue this in circles, what's really needed is repercussions for irresponsible owners. I guess this girl got her repurcussions dished up in the harshest way. I'd like to read follow-ups to other stories, say where a young or older person is killed, that the owner is going to serve a long sentence with no parole. People need to understand that if their dog hurts someone that they are going away like they did it themselves. From my brief googling it seems people will face civil claims, not criminal, if their dog kills someone. That is bull****.

 

[285Roadrunner]

LOL!

BS numbers, really? Then WHY are they widely regulated and even banned on military housing? Because they are dangerous, plain and simple.

These are just deaths, add in attacks, you know, like when one of these hyenas rips some little girl's face off, and you are talking an increase many times the death numbers. Ask a veterinarian how many pits he puts down every year.

Read if you want to know the truth, or just stay ignorant to the facts....till it happens to your little boy or girl.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php

Because they are tenacious, stubborn and playful. . .

I have read the "facts" as you call them ...

It's not factor A (bite frequency) and it's not factor B (power of bite)
It's A X B = C ....and C is usually not good.

A good friend of mine who tranes shepherd ands malinois for military professionally told me why they don't use them...because they are strong willed and harder ,....much harder to train than other working dogs like shepherds and Belgian malinois....basically have to beat them. Not because they are dumb, but because they are strong willed.

Training cost $, and I think it's safe to say that the military isn't going to spend money on a dog that's inherently harder to train than German Shepherds And Malinois....

Listen, I am not saying pits are Angels and/ or teddy bears , because they are not always. However, they do often attract owners who are potentially ignorant to the standards of raising a working dog and it social standards.

But, again, as I asked earlier in the thread: even if they (pits) were proven dangerous to society and others...what's your/ the solution ?????

 

[285Roadrunner]

Same reason I didn't verify the dogbite.org stats. They seem to come from verified media reports but there is no way to know if the media properly identified the dog in the first place. Unfortunately this is not an argument where "reason" will prevail because both sides are emotionally invested (like a lot of arguments, I guess...). I will say I have learned a lot from you pit lovers in this thread. I still don't want one but it's always good to learn something new.

Same to your, sir.

I am not here to talk **** as I have no piss and vinegar left at my age, however, I always learn something in these threads.

And for the record, I am not a pit lover, nor owner. I have German Shepherds but have met more friendly pits than mean ones and I certainly try to understand the essence of these threads from both point of views. . .

 

[Mr. Goodbar]

Same to your, sir.

I am not here to talk **** as I have no piss and vinegar left at my age, however, I always learn something in these threads.

And for the record, I am not a pit lover, nor owner. I have German Shepherds but have met more friendly pits than mean ones and I certainly try to understand the essence of these threads from both point of views. . .

It’s kind of funny, pits are no problem for me, but German Sheppard’s make me nervous lol I don’t get it

 

[285Roadrunner]

It’s kind of funny, pits are no problem for me, but German Sheppard’s make me nervous lol I don’t get it

ya, i live in the city and often get some pleasant stares at times.

only been bit badly once and it was a Dalmatian...