xtreme 125gr RN load data for 9mm??

[railin93]

looked thru a bunch of different manufacturer's sites for some kind of mid range to start loading these at and have a few questions...first, why do so many of the OAL for the 125gr vary so widely?...ive seen 1.090 all the way up to 1.115...tried a test round @ 1.090 and it seems way too short...looking at the projectile it measures (roughly) to barely fit in the case at 1.13-1.14...grain weight i can start from the minimum and work my way up so i think ive got that handled...

im not independently wealthy, so burning ammo and projectiles to get a base line to start from isnt an option and the manufacturer website gives only vague info as to mid-jacketed loads or mid-level lead of the same weight but no OAL depth...anyone have experience with these so i can get a decent starting point?

 

[1006]

I just use the load for my bullet weight that is likely to match the desired velosity.

In regards to OAL, load them the length that works best in your gun. The OAL listed in your book is just a reference point. If your OAL is longer, the bullet will have slightly less velosity. You won't likely blow your gun up using published data and a resonable OAL. If you are loading at a shorter than published OAL for your bullet, you may have to work up from a reduced charge to determine a max velocity.

If you are loading Forty S&W you will need to be careful not to load at max charge weights combined with a relatively short OAL. The pressure for most 40 caliber is already close to the max.

Generally speaking the greater percentage of space the bullet uses within the case, the more critical the OAL becomes when shorter than published. The 125 grain 9 has a lot of room to spare with published data.

 

[CarZombie]

I use 3.5 grains of Bullseye with and OAL of 1.151. When I started, I measured a factory 125 FMJ load and used that as my OAL. I have never looked back. I have used Western Nevada and Berry's plated bullets with the same powder and OAL. Western Nevada was Xtreme a long time ago. I get app 966 aver out of my Glock 17. I had a Calico rifle, 16 inch barrel, and got about 1100 to 1200 out of it. I have fired this load through my Luger, P-38, Calico rifle and pistol, Specture pistol, and various Glocks. I stay with this load because 3.5 is easier to adjust the powder thrower to, than say 3.7. The only thing I have found this load would not run is a M-11 submachine gun. Needed to step up to 4.00 grains. Can not tell you what it groups at, because I never have really benched it. Never have seen the need, as I can shoot it as well as any factory ammo. If my MEMORY is correct, this should be a close to a starting load/mid range load. I will knock down steel.

You don't mention what powder you looking at, but you should be able to take the recommendations from a couple of reloading books and get a start point. While this may get some negative replies, I would say that if you start with a true starting load/mid range load, you can just use the lead bullet charges. Or look at lead and compare it with FMJ, and take the lower number. You CANNOT do this with near max or max loads! If you don't have a couple of manuals, search the powder manufactures web sites, but your really need manuals. The more the better, comparing suggested loads, especially if they give you velocities is a good way of getting the best start point for the velocity your seeking.

 

[RamRoddoc]

I load mostly sub sonic in 9mm so the case has some space. I have several OAL's varying from 1.06" but mostly 1.12"-1.13". Don't compress the powder charge unless it specifically allows for this in a current reloading manual. Insure you have some wiggle room in your magazine, if too long the rounds will bind in the magazine.

The plated bullets I would load to sub sonic or average target loads. They don't like to be pushed hard. The round nose are more forgiving of OAL variations.

I load 9mm 147 grain bullets to 1.15", not allowing the charge to be compressed. Compressing the powder in many cases will exponentially increase pressures and can and have resulted in catastrophic failures.

 

[railin93]

sorry i left the powder of choice out...i have two pounds of titegroup so i gotta "burn" thru those first but i think im gonna try Unique next...check several of the factory round nose i have and they are ranging from 1.138-1.16 and the WWB is the high end with Atlanta Arms being 1.138-1.14...those are all of the 115gr type so that might or might not have an effect on the OAL but i dont think so...

thinkin im gonna load mine on the low side and work up from there...dont really care about super accurate loads as i want minute-o-man accuracy for range plinking and the like...ive got more "appropriate" firearms for self defense...those i'll worry about accuracy and precision...

 

[railin93]

Ram...you said you load 147gr for sub duty...how quiet are they out of your suppressor?...seriously thinking of finishing the 124gr i have and going for the 147gr next...priced some multi cal suppressors this weekend and feel they might be more in line with where i want to head with this type of venture...

 

[PA4476]

Here is a real good load data site.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

 

[noylj]

RANT:
COL (cartridge overall length) is dependent on the bullet ogive and meplat, the magazine, the feed ramp, and the chamber. If is not something that can be set independent of those variables. Thus, every bullet is different and every gun is different. You probably aren't using the exact same bullet as the manual (and, even if you do, the manufacturers change bullet ogive/meplat without notice), there is a wide range of ogive/meplat between FMJ-RN, FMJ-FN, SWC, JHP, etc., and no test lab has the same gun as the other test lab.
Reloading is not cooking and manuals are not cook books but only a guideline showing what they tested. Their COLs also are NOT optimum, but usually about all they are, for the reloader, is the minimum COL that the data applies to for that bullet. We were all "better" off back when manuals DID NOT publish COL and ever reloader KNEW that COL was their responsibility, as was working up a safe load. Back when I started reloading, no one would EVER tell someone to simply take the mid-range load in some manual and start THERE. You knew to check multiple sources and to start with the lowest starting load you could find.
END RANT
I take one or two cases and, if not set-up already, I use them to set up the dies. Do not have any primers or powder in the press at all. You are making inert dummy rounds to check function in your gun.
Raise the ram and then screw down the sizing die until it just touches the shell holder. Lower the ram, insert case in shell holder, raise the ram and ease the case into the sizing die. With the case in the die, tighten the lock ring.
If using a powder-through expander powder measure, then use the case to set up the powder measure. After each attempt at expanding and case mouth flaring, run the case back through the sizing die. Again, with the case mouth flare where you want it, tighten the lock ring on the powder die with the case in the die.
Case in seating station. Raise the ram/case. Screw the seating stem all the way UP and then screw the die body down until the crimp section hits the case mouth (if your seating die has a crimp section) and then turn the die UP at least one full turn so the crimp section is not an issue.
Now, for the COL. Take your magazine in hand. Seat the bullet in the case until it just barely fits the magazine. This is your starting COL.
If you can, take the barrel in hand. Remove just enough case mouth flare so the inert round will drop in the barrel. If you have a 1911, there is a barrel hood that will indicate proper head spacing for the cartridge. You would adjust the COL until the case head is just flush with the barrel hood. Other pistol barrels don't seem to have such an obvious way to verify minimum head space, so you can reassembly the gun and hand cycle the inert round in your gun to be sure if feeds and chambers.
With the barrel still out of the gun, I take the inert round and "paint" it all black with a Magic Marker or other marker (the bullet and the case). I drop the round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth once. Remove the round and inspect it. If there are some very light scratches along the case, you are good to go.
If there are scratch marks on the bullet, the COL is too long. Seat the bullet deeper until the scratches go away.
If there are scratch marks right on the case mouth, you need more "crimp."
If there are scratch marks just below the case mouth, you may have over crimped.
If there are scratch marks on one side of the case where the base of the bullet is, you have seated the bullet crooked.
If there are scratch marks just above the extractor groove, you have a bulge in the case that was not sized out.
Once the round only has a few incidental marks from feeding and chambering, you have the COL set and the crimp is just right and you are ready to go.
Record the COL and the bullet and keep it in your records.
From there, you can reduce the COL some more if you have some reason (testing shows a slightly shorter COL is more accurate (I haven't found that true, but it is reported), you have some failures to feed and chamber at the range, you need to reduce the COL so the rounds can be fired in more than one gun, etc.
This will, at most, waste ONE bullet.
Doing this is almost second nature and doesn't seem to take any time at all-unlike writing about it.
All of this SHOULD be covered in the manuals, but most seem to ignore COL determination altogether.

 

[1006]

Titegroup is a great 9mm powder.

Load it on the hot side for best results in accuracy.

I use 3.5 for plinker loads and 4.0 for full power with the plated 125.

 

[RamRoddoc]

Ram...you said you load 147gr for sub duty...how quiet are they out of your suppressor?...seriously thinking of finishing the 124gr i have and going for the 147gr next...priced some multi cal suppressors this weekend and feel they might be more in line with where i want to head with this type of venture...

noylj put a bunch of good info out so sift through that.

I take my tightest barrel and drop my rounds through it to at least make sure it will chamber. If not attempt to determine why not. Black sharpie markers are your friend to find where it binds at as well as inspecting the case mouth for debris.

The lead cast 147 grain with AA #5 is the most reduced sound loading I make. I expect the lube, after the first round pop does it's part at reducing the volume as well. A cap full of water does significantly reduce the first round pop but is a bit more messy if you face is close to the (semi-auto) chamber. I mostly shoot 124 grain lead cast simply for cost reasons. Lead cast does cak up the suppressor and I would not use it in a suppressor that can't be disassembled for cleaning.

Blow back is a nuisance and splatter from lube/burnt powder when shooting the 9mm AR pistol when obtaining a correct nose to charging handle does make required eye protection even more clearly a need. Pistols are not really an issue due to distance from the face. The biggest issue with this 147 grain bullet is not compressing the powder and not getting the length too long binding in the magazine. 1.15" seems to be about right for the 147 grain bullets in several brands of 9mm (Glock, Kahr, Browning, S&W, Interarms etc.)

A fast powder like AA#2 or Win 231 or others due to the peak pressure spike and a heavy bullet like the 147 grain does visible stress my brass with much more pronounced markings on the case head. It beats the hell out it. So I went to a bit slower burning powder like AA#5.