Hey Guys Would like to hear from any gunsmiths out there or others who know. I am thinking on making a career change to be a gunsmith. Not sure if I should focus on any one area of gunsmithing or be an all round gunsmith. I guess, I am trying to get a feel for what is in most in demand, if anything, like, repair, refinishing, restoring, armorer, metal finisher, customizing, etc... Would appreciate any feed back on this thanks.
Career change to Gunsmithing
- Thread starter oc1oc2
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I am not a real gunsmith, but rather more of the kitchen table type. I became infatuated with guns since the age of 6. I read gun books; watch T.V. shows (Gun Smoke, Lone Ranger, The Untouchables and many others).
Metal and wood have always had my attention and with my Dad's guidance and a few donors learned some basics on inexpensive firearms. I refinished and re-blued my first firearm when I was 11-12 and snowed in for a week!
I joined the Army at 17 and years later when the Unit Armorer’s position opened up then I went through the Course to validate most of what I was already doing. Our Armorer didn't have the gun affliction like me. I learned from mostly reading and practical application. If I was to do this as a career, I'd recommend finding a local respected gunsmith and completing an apprentice/internship. After that experience you may want to reconsider. After or even during you may want to complete a certified gunsmithing course. There used to be one in Athens that Jim Stroh ran but sadly when he retired the course did too. There are some that advertise in the gun rags and you would probably get some good out of it but a good smith gets his reputation by deeds and not words or piece of paper stuck on the wall. Read all you can, learn metal working (cutting, welding, finishing etc.) and shirt tail a few good smiths and you will have a foundation to grow.
I say this because great gunsmiths love guns too but as a business must be forced to deal with customers and of course some will try the patience of any man. If you don't have or don't want to deal with this then perhaps another line of work or smithing job, however if the good outweighs the bad and is acceptable, then good luck to you.
Metal and wood have always had my attention and with my Dad's guidance and a few donors learned some basics on inexpensive firearms. I refinished and re-blued my first firearm when I was 11-12 and snowed in for a week!
I joined the Army at 17 and years later when the Unit Armorer’s position opened up then I went through the Course to validate most of what I was already doing. Our Armorer didn't have the gun affliction like me. I learned from mostly reading and practical application. If I was to do this as a career, I'd recommend finding a local respected gunsmith and completing an apprentice/internship. After that experience you may want to reconsider. After or even during you may want to complete a certified gunsmithing course. There used to be one in Athens that Jim Stroh ran but sadly when he retired the course did too. There are some that advertise in the gun rags and you would probably get some good out of it but a good smith gets his reputation by deeds and not words or piece of paper stuck on the wall. Read all you can, learn metal working (cutting, welding, finishing etc.) and shirt tail a few good smiths and you will have a foundation to grow.
I say this because great gunsmiths love guns too but as a business must be forced to deal with customers and of course some will try the patience of any man. If you don't have or don't want to deal with this then perhaps another line of work or smithing job, however if the good outweighs the bad and is acceptable, then good luck to you.
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A Good Gunsmith is like a Good Lawyer ... You often "get what you pay for" ... Unless you have one in the family!
The difference between a "Good One" and a "Bad One" is usually (but not always) directly dependent
upon their years of experience!
The difference between a "Good One" and a "Bad One" is usually (but not always) directly dependent
upon their years of experience!
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Thanks RamRoddoc
That sounds pretty much like most trades. I have been a tile mechanic for the past thirty years and I do like it, but the physical demands of the job are catching up with me. I like working with the mechanics of different things and creating and getting things to work again, I always have. I think my biggest hindrances would be people as you said, I like working with most folks but, every once in a while you get someone who is not happy and will never be happy and lives to make you and everyone else unhappy. The other would be paper work, I hate paper work and being a gunsmith means more paper work and saving it all for a long time. The later maybe the thing that kills that idea and maybe doing something else. All my work has always come from referrals I do not advertise so I think I could build a business it would just take time to get known. I was thinking about the American Gunsmithing Course which is certified and includes machining and welding. Do you know anyone who has gone through these folks?
That sounds pretty much like most trades. I have been a tile mechanic for the past thirty years and I do like it, but the physical demands of the job are catching up with me. I like working with the mechanics of different things and creating and getting things to work again, I always have. I think my biggest hindrances would be people as you said, I like working with most folks but, every once in a while you get someone who is not happy and will never be happy and lives to make you and everyone else unhappy. The other would be paper work, I hate paper work and being a gunsmith means more paper work and saving it all for a long time. The later maybe the thing that kills that idea and maybe doing something else. All my work has always come from referrals I do not advertise so I think I could build a business it would just take time to get known. I was thinking about the American Gunsmithing Course which is certified and includes machining and welding. Do you know anyone who has gone through these folks?
Don't expect to make a lot of money as a gunsmith. It's probably best to go to a school with an official program, and then seek out a shop to work at.
Remember what they say, "to make a million dollars in the gun business, start with two million dollars...."
As ngcsu posted, start out in a shop, see if you truly like it.
And, general gunsmithing takes a ever growing amount of tools, until you begin to specialize.
As ngcsu posted, start out in a shop, see if you truly like it.
And, general gunsmithing takes a ever growing amount of tools, until you begin to specialize.
oc1oc2,
I have only dealt personally with 3 Smiths in Georgia. Jim Stroh (retired) North of Athens, Ray over at Moss Pawn in Jonesboro and Steve Parsons over North of Griffin. I don't know about their certification and honestly did not care. They all came well recommended from folks I trusted.
Before you sink your money into a new profession, if possible work with/for some really good smiths. Offer your time, clean up, accept no money other than the training and advice absorbed in other words make yourself a friend and become an asset.
Steve Parsons was looking for a good apprentice/intern but the fellow was unreliable as far as when he would show up. But that's a haul from Lilburn. A regular Saturday guy for 6-12 months would be of mutual benefit.
Certification all most never hurts though. A good Smith's reputation is mostly built by word of mouth and as his customer base builds, work load increases and waiting time increases. Some good Smiths have a 3 month long or more waiting list.
If you’re determined and committed you can make it happen just like any other profession.
I have only dealt personally with 3 Smiths in Georgia. Jim Stroh (retired) North of Athens, Ray over at Moss Pawn in Jonesboro and Steve Parsons over North of Griffin. I don't know about their certification and honestly did not care. They all came well recommended from folks I trusted.
Before you sink your money into a new profession, if possible work with/for some really good smiths. Offer your time, clean up, accept no money other than the training and advice absorbed in other words make yourself a friend and become an asset.
Steve Parsons was looking for a good apprentice/intern but the fellow was unreliable as far as when he would show up. But that's a haul from Lilburn. A regular Saturday guy for 6-12 months would be of mutual benefit.
Certification all most never hurts though. A good Smith's reputation is mostly built by word of mouth and as his customer base builds, work load increases and waiting time increases. Some good Smiths have a 3 month long or more waiting list.
If you’re determined and committed you can make it happen just like any other profession.
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Whatever you do don't take the Penn Foster course on gunsmithing.
The other thing you're doing when you follow RamRoddocs advice is BUILDING YOUR NETWORK. So many people don't understand how vital that is for success in ANY business. What you know and how good your skills are is only the foundation. How big the house gets and how quickly it happens depends on the network of people around you. If you have basic skills, volunteering with a gunsmith would be a huge help to him--and he will want to help you.
RamRoddoc's suggestion to find a smith to work with is a sound advice, as is Lazarus' advice to stay away from Penn Foster.
I can tell you from personal experience I get 4 or 5 calls a week from people who want to come to work with me, almost none have any knowledge about gunsmithing above field stripping their personal weapons and have done nothing to increase their knowledge on their own. There are many books and resources where you can learn some solid fundamentals and theory before ever doing real gunsmith work and I strongly recommend that you invest some time in getting some knowledge before approaching someone to work with them.
In my case, my shop is a business first and is the sole source of my livelihood, so I approach anyone offering to work and/or apprentice as a business decision first. Even an offer to work for free still costs the business money. For example, if I can do a job that come in an hour, but I have to tech you how to do it, it may take three hours to teach you the first time, two hours the second time for refresher, etc. Those two jobs alone would cost me about 3 hours of productivity over and above what I would normally have spent doing the work. Every hour lost by me is money lost. My shop does a wide variety of services, so in a given week, there may be 15 different types of jobs that come in that may all require teaching someone to do them and that equals a lot of time lost.
Also the frequency of the type of work varies as well, so while I may teach someone how to do a trigger job on a Winchester Model 70 one week, it may be 6 weeks before another one comes in and would basically require re-enforcing the previous lesson, or as in the case of the last person I tried to teach, re-teaching the process over and over again. This reduces productivity by 30-40%, which in turn reduces revenue by 30-40% and I for one can't afford that. Another cost factor is I have to assume Liability for the work of the apprentice, which for me means increased insurance costs as well as lost productivity because I am not going to let a firearm that has been worked on by an untrained gunsmith leave the shop with first verifying for myself that the work was done properly and safely. This means spending more time going over someone's work, correcting errors, and following up with teachable points. Again a huge time suck, and in gunsmithing time is money.
So my advice is learn as much as possible so that you have something to bring to the table when approaching a gunsmith about working for him, taking on an apprentice is an expensive and time consuming proposition, and there has to be some return on the investment.
I can tell you from personal experience I get 4 or 5 calls a week from people who want to come to work with me, almost none have any knowledge about gunsmithing above field stripping their personal weapons and have done nothing to increase their knowledge on their own. There are many books and resources where you can learn some solid fundamentals and theory before ever doing real gunsmith work and I strongly recommend that you invest some time in getting some knowledge before approaching someone to work with them.
In my case, my shop is a business first and is the sole source of my livelihood, so I approach anyone offering to work and/or apprentice as a business decision first. Even an offer to work for free still costs the business money. For example, if I can do a job that come in an hour, but I have to tech you how to do it, it may take three hours to teach you the first time, two hours the second time for refresher, etc. Those two jobs alone would cost me about 3 hours of productivity over and above what I would normally have spent doing the work. Every hour lost by me is money lost. My shop does a wide variety of services, so in a given week, there may be 15 different types of jobs that come in that may all require teaching someone to do them and that equals a lot of time lost.
Also the frequency of the type of work varies as well, so while I may teach someone how to do a trigger job on a Winchester Model 70 one week, it may be 6 weeks before another one comes in and would basically require re-enforcing the previous lesson, or as in the case of the last person I tried to teach, re-teaching the process over and over again. This reduces productivity by 30-40%, which in turn reduces revenue by 30-40% and I for one can't afford that. Another cost factor is I have to assume Liability for the work of the apprentice, which for me means increased insurance costs as well as lost productivity because I am not going to let a firearm that has been worked on by an untrained gunsmith leave the shop with first verifying for myself that the work was done properly and safely. This means spending more time going over someone's work, correcting errors, and following up with teachable points. Again a huge time suck, and in gunsmithing time is money.
So my advice is learn as much as possible so that you have something to bring to the table when approaching a gunsmith about working for him, taking on an apprentice is an expensive and time consuming proposition, and there has to be some return on the investment.
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