Headscratcher...

[jcountry]

I had an interesting proposition made by a friend.

He thinks that his Taurus Judge may pattern well because of the threading in the barrel imparting a spin to the wad and making it open faster. (Faster than a smooth barrel shotgun would.)

I got to thinking about it, and I think that probably the wad will spin very little (if at all) from a Judge. I'm thinking that the wad is made of pretty soft plastic. I also understand (from reading about reloading) that soft lead (in any gun) will not catch the rifling once it is pushed too fast. I'm thinking that since a .410 wad is made out of soft plastic (at least a lot softer than lead) that maybe it just kinda slides down the barrel and gets very little if any spin going on.

Anyhow, I thought it was an interesting thing to think about. Anyone know the scoop on "spinning wads" from a judge?

 

[RamRoddoc]

"spinning wads" from a judge?

Heh, heh, heh. Now that's a picture.

On a serious note, the way it was explained to me when I asked the question, is the rifling does impart some spin, which allows the pattern open faster and sooner. Ok for close range (snake) but not for longer range (bird). T/C made a muzzle brake that basically halted the spiral turn and had straight groves (rifling) to use on bird.

A shotgun pistol is too illegal (AOW) but a pistol (rifling) that shots shot shells is not.

 

[acmech]

In other words, if you want to shoot a snake at your feet or a dog in the face thats biting your leg, a Taurus Judge with bird shot is good for that but worthless for self defense since the pattern will be so large.

 

[Clarke123]

From what I've read on the subject (lots of supposition, very few facts) the spin imparted will create a "donut shaped" pattern (ie: has a hole in it).
This isn't too big of a deal at close range (2-3 yards), but increases dramatically with distance. This is why the stacked-shot defense loads were actually made for this firearm.

Interestingly, the rifling on these guys is apparently rather shallow (to lessen the spin) which works to inhibit the performance of slugs and .45 loads that one may employ. Thus, you get "the worst of two worlds": a poor performing shotgun and a poor performing pistol ... that said, the weapon was always intended for close quarters self defense work ... which is what it does. For reference, consider your HD 18.5" open-cylinder choked shotty: it's not too great for hunting unless you use buck-shot or slugs (and even then the sight radius isn't that good for any distance to speak of)

Which brings up and off-op question: there are choke tubes on the market that are rifled and claim to provide better down-range performance of slugs in a shotty?!
Pardon my degression .... just an interesting subject ...

 

[1006]

I believe Ramrod and Clark summed it up. The Judge and other guns like it are only half good at anything.

Weather slugs or shot are used, the shooter needs to be close to the target.

The reading I have done indicates that the bird shot pattern starts to look like a spiral spring that gets larger and larger in diameter as the range increases.

The expensive Judge specialized loads for self defense are a good option when not shooting critters.

 

[Flashover16]

well being much more familiar with the old Thompson contender than the judge this is how I understand the judge.
first the contender in 45 LC/ 410 was designed as a hunting type weapon, and so needed the Choke (shot straightener if you will) to help stabilize the smaller shot.
the Judge is designed as a self defense weapon.
the judge does terrible with common shotgun shells and loads in the 410, but does a really good job with the new specialty handgun shot shells.
the best being 000 buck and I believe by Federal, it is my understanding and what I have read that it has everything to do with the size of the pellets and the filler material, the large Buck pellets are not effected by the rifling as they will not ride the grooves like a smaller pellet will.
you can look at shooting the bull U-tubes as he does quite a long testing of the judge.
hope this helps the discussion .