Hello to all my deer rifle enthusiasts…

[wolfmanrogers]

There are so many factors in play when it comes to a clean kill on a whitetail. Is their circulatory system pressurized (at the heart beat) or not. The angle of the shot. Placement of the bullet. Bullet BC (and all of those factors). Bullet construction. Bullet speed. Size of the critter. There are no two shots that are identical, so comparing what you did last year, or comparing your results with your hunting buddy's results is pointless.

It's just reductionist thinking to blame a shot that doesn't result in DRT as an issue with the cartridge used. What it is though, is EASY. It's the EASY solution and the one that results in the person that is making the argument getting a wonderful reward. A new gun!

 

[GFB]

There are so many factors in play when it comes to a clean kill on a whitetail. Is their circulatory system pressurized (at the heart beat) or not. The angle of the shot. Placement of the bullet. Bullet BC (and all of those factors). Bullet construction. Bullet speed. Size of the critter. There are no two shots that are identical, so comparing what you did last year, or comparing your results with your hunting buddy's results is pointless. There are many more, but it's just reductionist thinking to blame a shot that doesn't result in DRT as an issue with the cartridge used. What it is though is EASY. It's the EASY solution and the one that results in the person making the argument getting a wonderful reward. A new gun!

I always have shot deer through the lungs, which has resulted in the expected (short) death sprint. I have no expectation of DRT where I aim, regardless of cartridge. I always read a ton of hunters posting about their "DRT every time" exploits, oftentimes attributed to their trusty ### rifle. When I'm at the local game processors, what I actually see are a ton of headshot deer. One day, I'm going to get it all figured out, but, in the meantime, I'll probably need to get a few new rifles just to be sure.

 

[Korndog]

Remington model SEVEN Stainless in .308

View attachment 7253339

Stainless is nice

 

[Korndog]

I was answering your question you said you didn’t know what the other gentleman was talking about.

I know, just a friendly jab…

 

[yardboss1]

In my experience the bullet type and the shot placement is the most important factor in killing a deer. Understand what your bullet was designed to do.

• soft point fast expanding bullets are best for lung shots
• bonded bullets and copper bullets are best for shoulder shots
• any bullet works for a high middle of the neck shot

 

[Burdy]

You contradicted yourself by generalizing that the 25-06 and .270 win were superior cartridges (not calibers) to the .308 and 6.5C. With the correct bullets and shot placement, any of the four will work well, and not be the reason you didn't drt a deer.

No I didn't. As it pertains to whitetail deer both those cartridge's are superior to .308 and 6.5c at the wide range of distances that we typically take whitetails at. There are long threads on the ODT in which I cover all of this in detail from the actual fallacy of DRT (which I used here for simplicities sake), hydrostatic shock, impact velocity and performance and construction.

I've shot the vast majority, probably 95%+ of my deer the last several years with short barrel, suppressed, supersonic 300 BLK...but I do that inside the realm of its limitations and of my shooting ability and it works. The fact is the .270 or similar like the 25-06 have much wider swaths of killing efficiency on a whitetail than does .308.

We can construct scenarios in which particular instances sway more toward a particular cartridge, but when we are discussing pure killing efficacy, the wider your fan of terminal performance is, the better off you will be, since you never know what type of opportunity will be presented.

 

[wolfmanrogers]

No I didn't. As it pertains to whitetail deer both those cartridge's are superior to .308 and 6.5c at the wide range of distances that we typically take whitetails at. There are long threads on the ODT in which I cover all of this in detail from the actual fallacy of DRT (which I used here for simplicities sake), hydrostatic shock, impact velocity and performance and construction.

I've shot the vast majority, probably 95%+ of my deer the last several years with short barrel, suppressed, supersonic 300 BLK...but I do that inside the realm of its limitations and of my shooting ability and it works. The fact is the .270 or similar like the 25-06 have much wider swaths of killing efficiency on a whitetail than does .308.

We can construct scenarios in which particular instances sway more toward a particular cartridge, but when we are discussing pure killing efficacy, the wider your fan of terminal performance is, the better off you will be, since you never know what type of opportunity will be presented.

What major advantages does the .270 and 25-06 have over the .308 on killing whitetails? I use a .270 and 6.5C. I've never been presented with a scenario where the long action cartridges offered a "much wider swath of killing efficacy", if anything the converse. The 6.5C gives me excellent bc and better accuracy at distance (in my case).

 

[Burdy]

What major advantages does the .270 and 25-06 have over the .308 on killing whitetails? I use a .270 and 6.5C. I've never been presented with a scenario where the long action cartridges offered a "much wider swath of killing efficacy", if anything the converse. The 6.5C gives me excellent bc and better accuracy at distance (in my case).

In this particular case it would be the ability of those two to have impact velocities on the game above 2600 fps in a wider range of scenarios (distances) which is key in calibers from .243-.338 for the CNS switch and also the higher sectional density of 6.5cm can result in lost energy and pass throughs despite it's lower velocities.

No one is going to argue your 6.5 has better bc and is likely more accurate, its just not really relative to the game killing equation when we are talking about deer.

 

[wolfmanrogers]

In this particular case it would be the ability of those two to have impact velocities on the game above 2600 fps in a wider range of scenarios (distances) which is key in calibers from .243-.338 for the CNS switch and also the higher sectional density of 6.5cm can result in lost energy and pass throughs despite it's lower velocities.

No one is going to argue your 6.5 has better bc and is likely more accurate, its just not really relative to the game killing equation when we are talking about deer.

I wouldn't have disagreed with that 15-20 years ago, but bullet tech has addressed the performance envelope in relation to impact velocity pretty well, especially at ranges where various cartridges carry enough energy to humanely kill deer. Velocity is no longer the only variable when it comes to making bullets work properly in game. Higher tech bullets with varying jacket thicknesses, densities of lead, and tech for initiating expansion have largely overcome the need for speed, speed, speed.

 

[Burdy]

I wouldn't have disagreed with that 15-20 years ago, but bullet tech has addressed the performance envelope in relation to impact velocity pretty well, especially at ranges where various cartridges carry enough energy to humanely kill deer. Velocity is no longer the only variable when it comes to making bullets work properly in game. Higher tech bullets with varying jacket thicknesses, densities of lead, and tech for initiating expansion have largely overcome the need for speed, speed, speed.

When better bullet construction happens, it raises the killing ability for all cartridges.