How was the 1911 designed to be carried

[Flashover16]

if you don't carry cocked and locked you need to leave it at home. good way to get killed.

Yep! explain that to the Israel military!
I think they have a pretty good idea of how this would effect their ability to protect themselves.

 

[Flashover16]

All of this is why I do not carry a 1911... Not to turn this into another version of that debate, just saying...

If you do carry it Cocked and Locked for months - the safety is not assured to stay on.
If you carry Cocked and Locked - I would also think that compressing the hammer spring all the time would weaken it over time...
If you carry on an empty chamber, you are not loaded to capacity and you have to rack the slide to get ready for action.
If you lower the hammer on a round, you have to manually cock the SA hammer to get ready for action...

1) true, same as any weapon with a manual safety.
2) not true, compression and decompression is what wears a spring out, not constant compression or decompression.
3) True, same as any other weapon so carried.
4) true with any SA weapon that is carried that way.

 

[Shemp]

Interesting and reoccurring question/comments.
First exactly who says the 1911 was intended to be carried cocked and locked??
Browning upon the development of the 1911 from the existing 1900 had to make several changes to the weapon to satisfy the military demands, one of which was adding an extra safety so the cavalry wouldn't shoot their horse if they needed to draw and fire, he also had to change bullet weight, later after use and understanding of the weapon came the 1911 A-1.
as for carrying when I carry a 1911 I do carry cocked and locked, the military however carries hammer down.
Now as for lowering the hammer , well that depends on is it a series 70 or so called series 80?
a series 70 if you begin to release the hammer and let go of the trigger then the half cock notch is designed to catch the hammer fall, that's its purpose, not to carry a 1911 on half cock and to do so can damage the sear by the way, another old wives tale from military carriers.
if its a series 80 then release the hammer while holding it and slowly lowering it, take the finger off the trigger and you have both the half cock notch and the firing pin block to provide safety.
so to say "Someone" says to carry a 1911 one way or the other??? depends on who you listen to.
at the end of the day its all about what you feel best doing to me.

This comes from a well respected member on another site

Invented by who or exactly when I do not know, but it was apperently unheard of as late as 1955. Actually it was about 1909 or 1910.

It didn't become the standard way of caring it until that was promoted by civilian gun gurus as mentioned above.

The very late models of the gun - the final prototypes after years of development - didn't have the thumb safety. It was only added in 1910 IIRC. The grip safety was to secure the gun if the hammer was back and the gun wasn't to be fired. The cavalry asked for the thumb safety - Ordnance was Ok without it apparently.

The back and forth on the design of the gun is very well documented with features requested or modified along the multi-year development path. Some initiated by Browning and the team of Colt engineers, and some from various sources within the Army.

I have a copy of a 1914 Army manual for the pistol that details putting the gun in Condition 1, 2 or 3 (though not with that nomenclature). The nomenclature is perhaps what sprang up in the '50s, but the gun was used in various states since the beginning. Another detail well documented demonstrating Condition 1 carry was the design of the M1912 holster. Early variants had no inner wood bolster (a wood block sewn into the inner holster vertically). Documents show the cavalry wanted the holster modified so the safety was not disabled while riding. Clearly, they were using it with the safety enabled. The bolster cants the frame away slightly to keep the thumb safety from rubbing against the inner lining when carried condition 1. This need was addressed in 1912.

These details were around and well known in the '50s if you looked for them. An early book on the Colt pistols by Donald Bady came out about 1951 (I think). I re-read it recently and it mentions many of the above points.

Also, what military carries hammer down on loaded 1911s? The Israeli's carry hammer down on EMPTY chambers.

The 1911A1 wasn't around until much later and after WW1. Both safeties had long been on the gun.

Carrying a 1911 with a round in the pipe and the hammer down is borderline reckless.( MAYBE ok with a series 80 but still a bad idea). Promoting that method of carry on this site is also a bad idea and a good way to get someone new to 1911s potentially in a lot of trouble.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...1911s are not for the faint of heart.

 

[Shemp]

Yep! explain that to the Israel military!
I think they have a pretty good idea of how this would effect their ability to protect themselves.

Yes, Israelis do so on an EMPTY chamber.

 

[BamaBrad]

OP. I am glad you started this thread as I wanted to post my opinion on the CZ thread about how one should carry a 1911. I agree that it is to be carried, as stated above by several post, condition 1 a.k.a cocked and locked and any other terms or sayings that resembles condition 1. bearpugh said it, leave it at home with your glocks since they have no safety and don't carry a revolver, unless it has a safety. I know this sounds stupid but it's mu way of thinking.

 

[Flashover16]

Yes, Israelis do so on an EMPTY chamber.

That wasn't the arguement or question!
yes and the reason why they carry unloaded chamber is because its safer!
with practice they have proven that they can place the weapons into use as fast as carrying them loaded chamber, regardless of hammer/ striker condition.
so no reason someone that wishes to carry that way can't also practice.
again where does it state by anyone of knowledge that the 1911 has to be carried cocked and locked?

 

[DennisMac]

I know the optimal way would be with one in the pipe, however, I can't bring myself to walk around that way (I know it's psychological). But I would rather take a second to chamber a round then shoot myself.

 

[Flashover16]

This comes from a well respected member on another site

Carrying a 1911 with a round in the pipe and the hammer down is borderline reckless.( MAYBE ok with a series 80 but still a bad idea). Promoting that method of carry on this site is also a bad idea and a good way to get someone new to 1911s potentially in a lot of trouble.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...1911s are not for the faint of heart.

Only for those that do not understand the workings/ design operation of the 1911, or listen to way to many old wives tales and Gun clerk chatter.
anyone carrying a weapon without proper understanding and knowledge of that weapon is dangerous, regardless of age or how long they have been operating weapons.

 

[Shemp]

That wasn't the arguement or question!
yes and the reason why they carry unloaded chamber is because its safer!
with practice they have proven that they can place the weapons into use as fast as carrying them loaded chamber, regardless of hammer/ striker condition.
so no reason someone that wishes to carry that way can't also practice.
again where does it state by anyone of knowledge that the 1911 has to be carried cocked and locked?

Uh...people with knowledge? I would cite Col Jeff Cooper...and multiple accounts by the Army and Cavalry of the early 1900s.

Almost everyone "of knowledge" promotes condition 1 carry.

You clearly read something once and took it to heart. Sure...you can train train train from OWB military style holsters and be just as fast. Have fun with that. You are the first person I've ever heard of that thinks carrying a 1911 hammer down on a loaded chamber is a good idea

 

[white]

I thought everyone without a vaajayjay carried it cocked and locked