We got ‘til 1am on the HPA/SHORT Act🚨

[jonsmith6391]

I'm 99% certain that you misunderstood the context and conversation related to complete deregulation of machineguns as "Title II arms" and the closing of the registry per the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA of 1986.

Current collections could stand to lose a significant amount of value if civilians were able to buy and manufacturers produce/convert new machineguns.

The current amendment to the BBB sparked the conversation but others are talking about hypotheticals, i.e., repeal of the Hughes Amendment or elimination of the NFA altogether and the resultant impact on values.

Good, I'm not losing my mind. This was the conversation that had been going on!

Yeah, imagine if we could buy full-autos OTC at our LGSs with a Form 4473. I read somewhere that they only cost a little more than semi-autos ($1200-$1500 for a S&W Full Auto rifle that LEO/military uses compared to $800-$1000 for civilian semi-auto).

And hey, we can totally dream about a world where machine guns are perfectly legal (and cheap) to possess. Could you imagine the run on AMMO that would occur with that, too? A box of 50 rounds would be the equivalent of 1-2 magazines, depending on size and caliber.

 

[jonsmith6391]

it's also insane considering what you are getting as far as the actual firearm goes. I'm talking bent and stamped sheet metal with a minimum amount of actual machined parts involved. Nothing wrong with that. I kinda dig boxy ugly guns but let's be realistic. The law was the only reason it's worth more than it was when it was originally made and sold for a few hundred each.

Skinny Pete hear speaking the truth. "That's church, yo."

More seriously, though, I like the thought behind this argument in that "[you're] talking bent and stamped sheet metal with a minimum amount of actual machined parts involved." Not to mention, a lot of those machine guns can wear out after awhile and break down; sure, you can find someone who could probably fix it, but at what cost?

I'm assuming it's worthwhile to fix a heavily-used machine gun given the current law and prices (I saw one that was around $40,000, I believe, on GunBroker and was a brand new full-auto, pre-1986).

More serious question for the collective group here: I have watched YouTube videos about opening up an FFL with an SOT and being able to "own" modern-day full autos through that. Is this something the ATF has cracked down on? Or, like the NFA, is it an annoying amount of (legal) paperwork that legitimatizes your ownership of Class III weapons?

 

[palmettomoon]

Is this something the ATF has cracked down on? Or, like the NFA, is it an annoying amount of (legal) paperwork that legitimatizes your ownership of Class III weapons?

You'll do best trying to purchase posties that are not "samples with CLEO letters."

Larry Vickers and his buddies had a spot of trouble with that (what they did was outrageous though).

 

[DeerLord]

Skinny Pete hear speaking the truth. "That's church, yo."

More seriously, though, I like the thought behind this argument in that "[you're] talking bent and stamped sheet metal with a minimum amount of actual machined parts involved." Not to mention, a lot of those machine guns can wear out after awhile and break down; sure, you can find someone who could probably fix it, but at what cost?

I'm assuming it's worthwhile to fix a heavily-used machine gun given the current law and prices (I saw one that was around $40,000, I believe, on GunBroker and was a brand new full-auto, pre-1986).

More serious question for the collective group here: I have watched YouTube videos about opening up an FFL with an SOT and being able to "own" modern-day full autos through that. Is this something the ATF has cracked down on? Or, like the NFA, is it an annoying amount of (legal) paperwork that legitimatizes your ownership of Class III weapons?

It's a yes and no answer. Most YouTubers are SOT like garandthumb etc, and they pass around FA weapons that way. There's also the Larry Vickers case ongoing which makes me think it might still be risky business trying to have all your ducks in a row.

 

[letusbuyyourcar]

Skinny Pete hear speaking the truth. "That's church, yo."

More seriously, though, I like the thought behind this argument in that "[you're] talking bent and stamped sheet metal with a minimum amount of actual machined parts involved." Not to mention, a lot of those machine guns can wear out after awhile and break down; sure, you can find someone who could probably fix it, but at what cost?

I'm assuming it's worthwhile to fix a heavily-used machine gun given the current law and prices (I saw one that was around $40,000, I believe, on GunBroker and was a brand new full-auto, pre-1986).

More serious question for the collective group here: I have watched YouTube videos about opening up an FFL with an SOT and being able to "own" modern-day full autos through that. Is this something the ATF has cracked down on? Or, like the NFA, is it an annoying amount of (legal) paperwork that legitimatizes your ownership of Class III weapons?

I don't think I would be a Class 3/SOT under any circumstances. Ever since I was old enough to read my uncle's old issues of The Shotgun News I could remember seeing the full page ads for the "We Buy Legal Machine guns" guys. One guy even had his private plane in his ad. Then there were the guys doing conversions especially on HK stuff. But then they started dropping off gradually. Now of course I can't give exact names but more than a few of those guys either went to Federal prison or bankrupt trying not to go. See the way I saw it was that legal MGs are a rich man's game. So is legally dealing in them. And the ATF knows that very well. Don't you think those ATF pukes get jealous of seeing all the seizures that the DEA gets their hands on. So over the decades they have given the C3/SOT guys all the rope they need to hang themselves with. And then one day BOOM...audit time. Because they want your house your truck your boat life savings etc. One paperwork error is their foot in the door to get it all. So owning NFA stuff ( under current regs) is one thing. But being the one dealing in it is probably not the way to go. It's like the joke about "You knew I was a snake when you picked me up."
I had a Class 1 from 93 to 96. But that was the beginning of the Brady Act and AWB which screwed up most things. I had my license at my mom's insurance office in Macon since a bidness address was a requirement then . Plus I wanted some distance from it. I deliberately let it expire in 96 and sent my very few 4473 forms to them. Late 1997 I got a letter from them at my home address which BTW had changed by then . The letter told me I needed to hurry up and renew my license in order to not be in violation. And allowing it to expire was one of the top reasons for them to deny renewal. Well maybe I'm just paranoid but it had me puckered up tight. I took said letter to the post office and turned it around back to them as being the wrong address. I don't want ANY contact with them.
But... that's just ME. You may not be skeered of them .

 

[Spikey]

Any “members here” won’t lose anything.
They only collect the tax they don’t get to keep it.

If passed they will likely sell more pin the short run, and eventually the market will saturate and stabilize.

I don’t see how any one will just “loose millions”.

Was referring to what was paid for them with regards to if everyone and their brother can “ make “ a select fire gun . Then that $25,000 gun or $40,000 MP5 registered trigger is not worth that .

 

[aFarewellToKings]

Yeah, imagine if we could buy full-autos OTC at our LGSs with a Form 4473.

Imagine being able to buy a pistol, a rifle, a full-auto, a suppressor OTC with nothing but the store's approval.

 

[GeauxLSU]

Imagine being able to buy a pistol, a rifle, a full-auto, a suppressor OTC with nothing but the store's approval.

Crazy talk. What are you? Some kind of wild eyed anarchist? Be happy with the freedom you've been "granted" and try and not hurt yourself.

 

[Spikey]

Sad Republicans didn't clean house when they took the Senate.

After the BS Democrat leaning rulings she’s made , I’m hoping / betting they show her the door soon ! So obvious that she’s a tool for the Democrats !

 

[palmettomoon]

Crazy talk. What are you? Some kind of wild eyed anarchist? Be happy with the freedom you've been "granted" and try and not hurt yourself.

Folks would flip if they knew less than 100 years ago you could order a Thompson by mail and have it delivered by rail. Or, up until 1968 order a handgun and the USPS would drop it off with your power bill.