Any Argentine Sistema Colt subject matter experts on ODT?

[SchmittZoid]

Gents,

In my quest for interesting C&R 1911 related guns, I have been intrigued by the Argentine Sistema series of Colt 1911's and their locally produced clones. Are there any of you mil-surp guys that have knowledge of these?

I have already done all the Google searches and know the basics.

• Colt produced 10,000 1911's under contract for the Argentine military in 1927/1928.
• They bear the serial numbers 0001 through 9999 (or 10,000?).
  
• These were shipped to Argentina in lots between 1928 and 1936.
  
• These bear the Hartford, CT and rampant pony rollmark on the left side of the slide, and the Argentine crest and EJERCITO ARGENTINO on the right.
  
• They also bear the caliber designation of "Colt CAL 45" and not "11.25mm."

Then the shift:

• Colt licensed Argentina to produce their own clone versions in-country.
  
• Urban legend has this production on Colt machinery and by Colt employees or Colt-trained individuals. The variations/varieties of the legend are many - just as with the guns . . . .
  
• These do NOT bear the Hartford, CT or pony markings, but do usually bear a DGFM-FMAP designation.

So, I was hoping to pick the brains of those who make the study and collection of these part of their world. Thanks in advance (as always) to the eternal wellspring of knowledgeable folks that haunt these interwebz . . . . . . .

Zoid

 

[SchmittZoid]

I know there are a few guys that follow the vintage stuff, so here goes the call-outs . . . Guys, see above ^^^

MILSURP Collector
LARGO9
@Leatherhead
geezer
enfieldguy
@MRM
@biker13
@Hayata
10thmountain
@bulletpaluza
@dakota port
@mikey357
@GreenPanther
@sovietak474u
@Cobalt 60
JWC
@mkdhotrod
@TommyT

 

[JWC]

Schmittzoid, I appreciate that you included me in your list. However, I must confess that while I do follow S&W revolvers, and the history of them, I am not nearly as well versed in the history of Colt 1911 models or Colt revolvers. I truly wish that I had any information that would assist you, but I do not.
If you would like the history of the S&W model 520, how it came into production, and why it was stopped, I would be glad to help. lol
If I may, I would suggest that you replace my name with someone infinitely more knowledgeable about Colts.

 

[Mister Heavyhand]

Info I found on the web. I cannot confirm.

Colt Sistemas were built from 1945 to 1966. The unique serial numbers are found on the frame, on the slide, on the barrel hood, on the magazine baseplate, and on the receiver underneath the mainspring housing. Below are the serial numbers listed by year, along with the production numbers.

1945 - 6,000 - #24,001 - #30,000
1946 - 7,628 - #30,001 - #37,628
1947 - 5,000 - #37,629 - #42,628
1948 - 7,000 - #42,629 - #49,628
1949 - 5,000 - #49,629 - #54,628
1950 - 8,000 - #54,629 - #62,628
1951 - 8,011 - #62,629 - #70,639
1952 - 7,016 - #70,640 - #77,655
1953 - 2,500 - #77,656 - #80,155
1954 - 5,000 - #80,156 - #85,155
1955 - 2,500 - #85,156 - #87,655
1956 - 2,500 - #87,656 - #90,155
1957 - 5,626 - #90,156 - #95,781
1958 - 5,547 - #95,782 - #101,328
1959 - 5,000 - #101,329 - #106,328
1960 - 2,066 - #106,329 - #108,394
1961 - 1,000 - #108,395 - #109,394
1962 - 0
1963 - 600 - #109395 - #109,994
1964 - 750 - #109,995 - #110,744
1965 - 1,250 - #110,745 - #111,994
1966 - 500 - #111,995 - #112,494

Slide inscriptions and crests:
DGFM-(FMAP) - Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares-Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles
Ejercito Argentino - Argentine Army
Aeronautica Argentina - Argentine Air Force
Marina de Guerra, Armada Nacional, Armada Argentina, Marina Argentina - Argentine Navy during different periods
Gendarmeria Nacional - Border Patrol
Ministerio Del Interior - Ministry of the Interior
Policia De Los Territorios Nacional, Policia De La Provencia De Buenos Aires, Policia De La Provencia De Santa Fe, C.F.S. - Federal Internal Security

Labels: Sistemas

 

[SchmittZoid]

Schmittzoid, I appreciate that you included me in your list. However, I must confess that while I do follow S&W revolvers, and the history of them, I am not nearly as well versed in the history of Colt 1911 models or Colt revolvers. I truly wish that I had any information that would assist you, but I do not.
If you would like the history of the S&W model 520, how it came into production, and why it was stopped, I would be glad to help. lol
If I may, I would suggest that you replace my name with someone infinitely more knowledgeable about Colts.

JWC,

I was just casting a WIDE net. You never know who knows what these days . . . .

Didn't want to miss some of the more knowledgeable guys on here.

Zoid

 

[geezer]

I have a Hartford Colt complete slide assembly number 8896 of the original 10,000....you really want it....

 

[SchmittZoid]

I have a Hartford Colt complete slide assembly number 8896 of the original 10,000....you really want it....

I was thinking you had one of those, but I couldn't remember for sure. I need to send you some photos of what I just ran across . . . . .

I hope to get some taken and posted up tomorrow, but I REALLY hope to find someone who knows a whole lot more about these than I do.

I'll go back over some of your threads to take a look at it again (the slide). I just don't have anything right now to complete it . . . .

 

[enfieldguy]

It's funny you should ask...I'm debating on buying one right now. While I've had experience with vintage 1911s, I've never owned an Argentinian version. I know one thing, don't fall for the old 'made from steel salvaged from the Graf Spee' story.

 

[10thmountain]

I will,do some sourcing in the a.m.

 

[MILSURP Collector]

Info I found on the web. I cannot confirm.

Colt Sistemas were built from 1945 to 1966. The unique serial numbers are found on the frame, on the slide, on the barrel hood, on the magazine baseplate, and on the receiver underneath the mainspring housing. Below are the serial numbers listed by year, along with the production numbers.

1945 - 6,000 - #24,001 - #30,000
1946 - 7,628 - #30,001 - #37,628
1947 - 5,000 - #37,629 - #42,628
1948 - 7,000 - #42,629 - #49,628
1949 - 5,000 - #49,629 - #54,628
1950 - 8,000 - #54,629 - #62,628
1951 - 8,011 - #62,629 - #70,639
1952 - 7,016 - #70,640 - #77,655
1953 - 2,500 - #77,656 - #80,155
1954 - 5,000 - #80,156 - #85,155
1955 - 2,500 - #85,156 - #87,655
1956 - 2,500 - #87,656 - #90,155
1957 - 5,626 - #90,156 - #95,781
1958 - 5,547 - #95,782 - #101,328
1959 - 5,000 - #101,329 - #106,328
1960 - 2,066 - #106,329 - #108,394
1961 - 1,000 - #108,395 - #109,394
1962 - 0
1963 - 600 - #109395 - #109,994
1964 - 750 - #109,995 - #110,744
1965 - 1,250 - #110,745 - #111,994
1966 - 500 - #111,995 - #112,494

Slide inscriptions and crests:
DGFM-(FMAP) - Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares-Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles
Ejercito Argentino - Argentine Army
Aeronautica Argentina - Argentine Air Force
Marina de Guerra, Armada Nacional, Armada Argentina, Marina Argentina - Argentine Navy during different periods
Gendarmeria Nacional - Border Patrol
Ministerio Del Interior - Ministry of the Interior
Policia De Los Territorios Nacional, Policia De La Provencia De Buenos Aires, Policia De La Provencia De Santa Fe, C.F.S. - Federal Internal Security

Labels: Sistemas

Excellent post, I forgot mine was born the same year I was!