Thanks for the reply. Interesting about the small rifle primers, I've seen that usually in the loads for making major for race guns. Not so much in standard pistols. All I'm looking for is 1300 fps or so as in the original loadings for the cartridge. Few manuals list such loadings, even for 124 gr bullets. My access to a place to shoot and use a chrono is extremely limited, that's why I asked.
Anyone Loading 38 Super?
- Thread starter tayninh69
- Start date
Yes, the small rifle primer is used to get IPSC loads up to the Major Power Factor, but most people think that its use is strictly for extra power from a hotter formulated primer. It is, but indirectly so: The improved ignition makes for a more complete burn of the slower powders used, and the increased thickness of the primer's metal cup prevents the primer from rupturing.
I suggested the rifle primer for the powder that you listed, only as a means of useing that powder with a more complete burn in your gun. 800X, and BlueDot always left a lot of unburned powder in my guns.
Also, 1300 FPS is going to be virtually unachievable, with the powders that you have, in a stock 38 Super with a 125, and especially a 147. You could easily get 1300 with a 115, I have done it with a stock 9mm Glock 17, but it was quite snappy. As a starting point you would need a ramped barrel installed.
I think 1000FPS for the 147, and 1200FPS for the 125 would be more resonable.
The great thing about the 38Super is that it works so reliably in the 1911; it was designed specifically for the 1911. The 1911 needs a bullet the length of a 45, 38 super, or 10mm to run reliably without being finicky. The 9mm and the forty are too short to run without special mag design considerations.
It should be a great gun for you, once you get your load established.
I suggested the rifle primer for the powder that you listed, only as a means of useing that powder with a more complete burn in your gun. 800X, and BlueDot always left a lot of unburned powder in my guns.
Also, 1300 FPS is going to be virtually unachievable, with the powders that you have, in a stock 38 Super with a 125, and especially a 147. You could easily get 1300 with a 115, I have done it with a stock 9mm Glock 17, but it was quite snappy. As a starting point you would need a ramped barrel installed.
I think 1000FPS for the 147, and 1200FPS for the 125 would be more resonable.
The great thing about the 38Super is that it works so reliably in the 1911; it was designed specifically for the 1911. The 1911 needs a bullet the length of a 45, 38 super, or 10mm to run reliably without being finicky. The 9mm and the forty are too short to run without special mag design considerations.
It should be a great gun for you, once you get your load established.
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I pretty much agree with what 1006 says.
there are a few exceptions however in my opinion.
the 124, 125, 130 grain projectiles can be pushed over 1300 FPS with a few powders and still remain within the SAAMI recommended pressures.
just not with the powders that you have and possibly not out of a Commander length barrel.
V-105, Lil gun, will do it with standard jacketed rounds, not with modern hollow points that are longer.
I push my 124 grain self defense projectiles at about 1250 FPS myself, its a accurate shooting load and doesn't destroy the pistol.
the 115 grainers I can get up to about 1300 Fps. these were loads worked up in MY guns for safety.
Remember that the original 1300 FPS with the 130 grain lead Round nose (Ball) was the original loading and you can still get that or near with lead projectiles in the 124-130 grain weight but do you want lead projectiles?
and of course again not with your powders and your Commander.
Also ammunition manufactures backed off those pressures due to excessive wear on the Colts, more so to around 1225-1250 FPS. although they didn't have the more modern, more efficient powders of today.
hope this has helped the discussion some.
there are a few exceptions however in my opinion.
the 124, 125, 130 grain projectiles can be pushed over 1300 FPS with a few powders and still remain within the SAAMI recommended pressures.
just not with the powders that you have and possibly not out of a Commander length barrel.
V-105, Lil gun, will do it with standard jacketed rounds, not with modern hollow points that are longer.
I push my 124 grain self defense projectiles at about 1250 FPS myself, its a accurate shooting load and doesn't destroy the pistol.
the 115 grainers I can get up to about 1300 Fps. these were loads worked up in MY guns for safety.
Remember that the original 1300 FPS with the 130 grain lead Round nose (Ball) was the original loading and you can still get that or near with lead projectiles in the 124-130 grain weight but do you want lead projectiles?
and of course again not with your powders and your Commander.
Also ammunition manufactures backed off those pressures due to excessive wear on the Colts, more so to around 1225-1250 FPS. although they didn't have the more modern, more efficient powders of today.
hope this has helped the discussion some.
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I loaded 38 super many years, always loved Unique powder. Wallacem in Ga
Umm, tried to look at the avatar of the Ultra? and lost my reply. Anyway, I've seen the loads published for VV-N105 and Lil' Gun but as mentioned I have neither. Most manuals I have show around 1250 as the max loads other than Speer with Blue Dot. I tried some GA Arms that claimed ~1340 which was probably from a 5 inch barrel as most loads show. I'll probably lose 30 or so fps with the shorter Commander barrel. These shot well with no bulge at the feed ramp of the brass. They use a Speer hp, but not the Gold Dot. Powder looks a lot like Longshot but more circular flakes.
I realize 50 fps makes little difference in the real world but it's just a goal. Since I use a single stage press I measure every powder load. Slow….but it's a hobby.
Appreciate the replies. Nice Harley, Wallace….I ride a '07 Wide Glide.
I realize 50 fps makes little difference in the real world but it's just a goal. Since I use a single stage press I measure every powder load. Slow….but it's a hobby.
Appreciate the replies. Nice Harley, Wallace….I ride a '07 Wide Glide.
There is a lot of 38SUPER data in the new 2014 Hodgdon Loading Manual. There is 38SUPER+P data for 115, 124, 147, and 160gr projectiles. This is easily extrapolated.
The pressure limits on the two cartridge designations are the same as the 38SUPER was already the +P loading of the 38ACP cartridge.
The pressure limits on the two cartridge designations are the same as the 38SUPER was already the +P loading of the 38ACP cartridge.
AHHH???
Maybe I am not reading this correctly??
but just for safeties sake!
the 38 ACP (auto) is not loaded to the same level as the 38 Super or the 38 super plus p.
now the designation of the 38 super was changed to the 38 Super Plus P as a safety matter to help insure people DID NOT use 38 super ammo in a 38 ACP weapon.
the SAAMI working pressure for 38 Auto (ACP) is 26,500 PSI, the SAAMI working pressure for the 38 Super (or Plus p) is 36.500 PSI.
IT is perfectly safe to fire 38 Auto (ACP) ammo from a 38 Super weapon but not the other way around.
I don't believe that anyone any longer produces 38 Auto ammunition, but a few companies do still produce both 38 Super and 38 Super Plus p ammo.
hope this helps.
