ATF Finding on Black Aces Pro series 5 & Pro series 9 shotguns w/braces

[Necrosis]

Possible, except shotguns and AR’s are classified as completely different types of firearms I think.

These aren't shotguns by ATF definition, they are "firearms" (notice the language in the letter) because they aren't intended to be fired from the shoulder.

 

[Deleted member 79987]

It sounds to me like these two products (Arm braces for short shotgun-like "firearms" have a quirk about them -- a "catch 22."

If the braces are installed without any spacers or length extenders on them, then they are too short and the overall length of weapon wearing such a brace will not meet the 26- inch OAL requirement.

Remember ATF said several weeks ago that any short shotgun / pistol / firearm that has an arm stabilization brace will have its overall length determined by measuring the brace in its closed or shortest adjustable position.

If a shotgun type weapon is below 26 inches it's an "any other weapon" (AOW).

If a pistol were to have a shoulder brace and an overall length of less than 26 inches, then you can't legally put a vertical foregrip on it.

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Now, these two particular shotgun -type firearm pistol braces happen to have spacers and extenders available for them. If you use the spacers, then you will increase the gun's size so that you can meet the overall length requirement . Thus, you avoid the "AOW" problem.

BUT, apparently ATF takes the position that if you put extenders or spacer tubes on an arm stabilization brace to give the weapon a longer length of pull (more like a standard dimension shoulder stock) you have turned it into a shoulder stock! It is no longer considered a pistol or firearm stabilization brace. So, configuring it that way will change the weapon's status to short barreled shotgun (SBS).

Too many semantics and nit picky details.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

It should not....a pistol is a pistol.

A shotgun can never ever under any circumstances be a pistol.

It can be a shotgun
It can be a firearm
It can be a short barreled shotgun
In pistol form it would be a destructive device.

 

[poopdaddy]

They can’t keep up with their own bull**** it’s ridiculous at this point. Can you shoulder your folding braced firearm while you’re Moving backwards with body armor on?

Straight up % them

simple reply
agent 1 "yes"
agent 2 "no"
agent 3 "only in months ending with a ber"
agent 4 "only in months with no vowels"
agent 5 " I HAVE THE POWER DA DA DA HE-MAN"
agent 6 "whats a brace"
agent 7 "he man is on???"
agent 8 "is it lunch time??"
agent 9 " is body armor a new scent of ax spray? i love ax body spray"
agent 10 " i need to ask my boss"
boss " maybe today,tomorrow not so much,keep checking back with me. i am channeling my inner woman and changing my mind"
does this help?
cause they sure dont!!!

 

[JDS556762]

simple reply
agent 1 "yes"
agent 2 "no"
agent 3 "only in months ending with a ber"
agent 4 "only in months with no vowels"
agent 5 " I HAVE THE POWER DA DA DA HE-MAN"
agent 6 "whats a brace"
agent 7 "he man is on???"
agent 8 "is it lunch time??"
agent 9 " is body armor a new scent of ax spray? i love ax body spray"
agent 10 " i need to ask my boss"
boss " maybe today,tomorrow not so much,keep checking back with me. i am channeling my inner woman and changing my mind"
does this help?
cause they sure dont!!!

 

[chucklenut]

what i dont understand is how that letter prevents another mass shooting or crime

 

[Crackerjack88]

So is a shockwave with a fixed brace over 26" OK?

 

[Lionheart]

This ATF letter gave me a headache...looks like IRS regs.