How much free work have you been asked to do prior to being offered a job?

[jeep78]

Show them what you have and can do. If you are good, and they do not hire you this time, they will remember you.

Also, jobs are more fluid now than anytime in the past. Some of those guys interviewing you may be at a different company by Christmas. Networking is important, and a meeting face to face is worth more than all the posts on Linkedin.

 

[GeauxLSU]

This is exactly what I am concerned about. They've gotten around 8 hrs of free consulting out of me. They haven't taken notes or set a tape recorder on the table etc. They have asked legit questions one would expect, and respected my opinion when I told them they were wrong. I have purposely omitted key piece of information and continue to have meetings with more of their staff. The more people I meet, the more I see how much of a clue what they do not have.

It sounds like they know what they are doing, with you (or presumably other candidates). Testing your skills, getting 'some' info, and not necessarily looking for a free ride. You're in a good position. Do what YOU want and don't second guess it or you may out maneuver yourself.
Not really the same but related, I've been out of work for a year. A small company contacted me needing some help. I offered to help. pro bono, just to have something to do! It's not a huge time commitment (yet) and at some point if it progresses (which isnt likely) I'll discuss pay. But for NOW, I'm getting what I want (having something to freaking do that's in my field) and I'm helping someone out that I don't mind helping.
Point being, stop worrying about their angle and worry about YOU. If the two mesh, great, if not, no regrets. If this is a chance for you to show your worth and perhaps land a better gig, then do it. If they 'steal' your ideas then so what? You wouldn't want to work there anyway.

 

[Smoothie]

Didnt read the other replies. I would have a straight up conversation and ask them questions.

Is there an open position?
Do they have a budget should you come up with a viable plan?
What do they plan on doing with the information?
Are there other candidates doing similiar proposals?
Who is the audience on "the board"? Most divisions dont have a board.

Dont be a chump but also dont close the door. Most employers dont want robots, they want smart people who question the status quo

 

[ch035]

I'm not concerned about them " stealing my ideas". This isn't novel stuff that only I can do. It's actually just industry standard. 10 minutes on google and anyone can discuss demand waterfalls, drip marketing and lead nurturing. The question is why they haven't done it, when everyone else did 20-30 years ago...

 

[GeauxLSU]

I'm not concerned about them " stealing my ideas". This isn't novel stuff that only I can do. It's actually just industry standard. 10 minutes on google and anyone can discuss demand waterfalls, drip marketing and lead nurturing. The question is why they haven't done it, when everyone else did 20-30 years ago...

Then just ask them.

 

[Smoothie]

Then just ask them.

Exactly what I was trying to say. You doing a bunch of work won't answer it, asking them will.

 

[crippen]

"I'm about to just hit them square in the teeth with the cold truth... it's fixable but it's not going to be cheap or nearly as easy as you thought. Anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they are doing."

This is how I deal with people, how I want to be dealt with and I don't want to work with people that don't do business this way.


So this has my vote 100%. Of course I'm a carpenter and my advice in this matter might be worth what you've paid for it.

 

[rbstern]

I'm not concerned about them " stealing my ideas". This isn't novel stuff that only I can do. It's actually just industry standard. 10 minutes on google and anyone can discuss demand waterfalls, drip marketing and lead nurturing. The question is why they haven't done it, when everyone else did 20-30 years ago...

You described them as very successful. Perhaps what it took for them to succeed was exceptional focus on what they do well, and ignoring some other important issues that they weren't good at, to the point of causing a problem down the road, i.e., right now.

In our fast changing world, it's an out of favor approach, but some folks do very well by sticking to what they know. Warren Buffet comes to mind.

 

[gamadmex4502]

You are being tested most likely. I am guessing that they are looking to identify the problem and not the symptoms. Perhaps you can approach it that way and recommend industry best practices that are not being followed without being too specific and giving them for free what they seek. And make it clear that this is not the panacea that they want, developing that as you said will take a large investment of time and money. But you are providing a starting point. Leave them wanting more. And you can probably be assured that there are other issues at this firm that can be examined once you get your foot in the door.

 

[6Bones]

For those of you folks who think of this as "working for free," you should stop thinking that way. Opportunity has cost. If there is serious upside potential for ch035 in the position this company is looking to hire for, he should be willing to put some skin in the game to beat out the other folks who want the same opportunity. If it's truly a valuable opportunity, he's going to have competition, and he should fight to win. Extraordinary effort, if the opportunity is that good.

And, ch035, when interviewing, it's a bad idea to think you're the smartest person in the room. Can't tell you how many times, as a consultant or a hired gun, I'll sit through initial meetings, hear about problems, and think "I know how to fix this." Only to discover later, with more exposure to the same people and circumstances, that: 1) The people are better performers than you gave them credit for, and 2) the problem has challenging roots that can't be appreciated from an hour or two of learning.

That doesn't mean you don't have talent, or that you aren't the right person to solve the problem. Just don't sell everyone else, or the challenges, short.

P.S. I've seen some very smart business leaders "dumb down" during interviews, to see how the candidate handles the idea of being the smart person in the room. Humble, self-aware candidates focus on demonstrating their skill by asking questions and getting a solid handle on the problem.

ch035 , given that you are looking for a staff vs. consultant position, sadly rbstern is probably right, but like you and others suggest, it is disconcerting when you are placed in a position where you are forced to surrender your intellectual property without the promise of any return on your investment. Believe me when I say that I fully understand.

In my field (architecture) the "opportunity costs" have risen to the point of absurdity with regard to upfront expectations with two typical outcomes: 1) You win the job but have removed any chance of a profit from all the upfront (free) design required by the Owner; or 2) You lose the job and have to steal profit from the next job (or jobs), or from operating costs, or take on a line of credit to carry you till you do win something!

If a business has high profit margin, the opportunity cost model rbstern suggests can work, but for low profit margin business with variable (or unpredictable) volume, not so much.

At the risk of sounding confrontational, I'll bet rbstern is in a high profit margin business with a predictable volume. Am I close?

ch035 whatever you do, take this advise with you...

"Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be architects" ....or work in low profit margin, unpredictable volume businesses.