information about frog lube

[mtdawg169]

Two parts canola oil. One part vegetable oil. Half part olive oil (for color). Put in a shot glass. Added 20 drops of 3-in-1 for good measure.

Cleaned up a dirty 1911 .22 pretty well. About like CLP. Seemed to work better the longer you leave it on.

No long term use results yet. Something to consider in shtf I guess. It's still on my bench and it's good for using on q-tips to clean but I don't think I'd rely on it to lubricate.

I'll be very interested to see what happens. Generally speaking, petroleum based products don't get along with bio-based oils. So, I wonder what effect the 3 in 1 oil will have on the mixture. Also, a few guys tried generic "vegetable oil" on their guns, which turned rancid pretty quickly. I'm not sure if what they used was soy or a blend.

 

[davans]

Sort of old news / continuing drama at this point. What is not in dispute is that Fireclean DOES work well. The author of that article, Andrew Tuohy, has stated that himself, even after publishing the article and a follow up article.

Additionally, industry professionals from Knights Armament, Magpul and others have all tested Fireclean, with excellent results. They don't get paid to endorse it either.

What he presented isn't exactly groundbreaking. Anyone who has been paying attention over the last few years, knows that all of the "bio-based", non-toxic lubricant are essentially food based oils. Meaning, they are plant or seed based. That's not new news. And it includes Froglube, which is soy based if I'm not mistaken. It's soy base is the reason it breaks down pretty quickly and becomes a tacky, smelly mess. Fireclean doesn't do that. Further, there have numerous first hand accounts of guns stored with FC for months or over a year, with no loss of lubricity. Froglube can't claim that and the number of people that have had issues with Froglube outweigh Fireclean by a factor of 10.

What has been claimed is that Fireclean is canola. But that has not been fully proven. The people who performed the tests have repeatedly used words like "essentially the same". That's not a definitive statement. In fact, the test that was used will return the same results for a wide variety of veg based oils. I saw a comparison of 20 different veg based oils and they all looked "essentially the same." So, all they proved is what we already knew, Fireclean is a vegetable or seed based oil. The tests used do not conclusively prove that Fireclean is canola oil.

What we know with absolute certainty, is that it is NOT crisco vegetable oil. Don't believe me, then try running it in your gun, get it hot and dirty, then report back in a couple weeks. The result? A rancid, sticky mess.

What I haven't seen yet, is someone that has run a valid field test of pure canola oil for comparison. I look forward to seeing that when someone does.

So, it seems that the only valid complaint at this point is that Fireclean is expensive, because it MIGHT be canola oil. If that turns out to be true, then color me excited. Because Fireclean works wonderfully. And if I can buy a substitute that works just as well for a few dollars a gallon, I'll be set for years.

Summary: Fireclean works and works well. We don't know yet exactly what it is. And pretty much everyone agrees, Froglube is still a ****ty lubricant.

If you like fire clean....more power to you. I'm not trying to convince anyone here that they should or should not be using anything.

You put a lot of effort into telling people how bad froglube is.

I've used it for years....I've done everything wrong you can in an attempt to recreate even one of the issues that some folks claim to have. I have even put firearms and parts in the freezer over night to see if it slowed the actions. It did not.

I have no interest in promoting or condemning any products. But considering I buy it in bulk, us it on everything and share it with others, I take some interest in the complaints. I have made an honest attempt to recreate the reported issues with no such findings.

I have skipped the prepping process and mixed lubes in the beginning. Initially there was no fl solvent or direction to strip other products. Just use it until it breakers done the other products.

I have inspected clean fl'd weapons and found some dark residue. NOT A STICKY GUNK. My thoughts were " this stuff is still breaking down carbon or perhaps the previous Lube ". I did not go into a panic, I simply wiped it out with a q-tip and moved on. I have also ran dirty fl'd guns long enough to be impressed with the results and the easy of cleaning after they have been treated.

I suspect that there is some combination that does react unfavorably with frog luge. I'm not calling anyone that claims to have had an issue a liar. However I would also suspect that a proper application would have avoided the issue.

If you mix synthetic gear oil with not synthetic it will gum up. But that doesn't make it a bad product. It was used incorrectly. Some coolants don't mix well with tap water. But again. It clearly states to use distilled or ionized water. If you use tape water you will likely have some corrosion issues. Again. Not the products fault if used correctly.

I got an e-mail not long ago that frog Lube has a new product called FL Extreme ( for extreme cold environments ) I believe. Which may indicate that there are in fact some cold weather issues with the product but I have not been able to reproduce.

You dismiss the complaints about fire clean but consider any and all complaints about froglube as fact.

I'm sure there are better cleaner, lubes and protectants than froglube. But it works very well. I use it because it doesn't stink up the house, if I get it on anything, it will not damage it. And clean up after treatment is a snap. Carbon does not harden and it lubes excellently. That sir is a FACT.

For every person with a complaint there are thousands using it without complaint.

I literally have a few years worth of frog luge and with no complaints I have no reason change.

I have nothing against fire clean either. But there are now similar complaint surfacing about it slowing down the actions in cold weather.

Summary: use what you want. If you or anyone else can prove frog Lube ( when used correctly ) gets sticky or gummy Id sure like to know about it.

 

[mtdawg169]

Understood. You have certainly had better luck than I did. I followed all their directions to the letter, with the exception of running it wet on occasion. Usually the result of reapplying on the range and not wiping off any excess. It didn't work for me. Lots of other folks had similar experiences. I've long suspected that the reason some people had issues, while others did not was possibly some variation from batch to batch. Who knows?

I've been using Fireclean for a little more than a year. But I honestly have to say that I'm not a fan boy. The only reason I continue to use it is because it's been working well and I'd rather have a non-toxic lube for suppressed shooting. I haven't had any issues, but it took a long time for me to trust Fireclean after my FL experience. To some extent, I am still waiting to see if it gums up on me.

As far as the new articles by Vuurwapen, I can't really figure out his angle. He has said repeatedly that it works well. But he has also been trying to prove that it is simple canola oil. It seems like his only issue is that it is expensive, if it is in fact simply canola. Of course, it's been high drama on the Internet. One manufacturer of a competing product (not FL) started the rumor that it was crisco. A few people tried crisco as a result and it didn't work.

Personally, I'm not a brand loyalist for Fireclean. It has worked well, so I've kept using it. I hope it does turn out to be canola oil. Because it works and I'd love to buy in bulk on the cheap.

 

[mtdawg169]

If you like fire clean....more power to you. I'm not trying to convince anyone here that they should or should not be using anything.

You put a lot of effort into telling people how bad froglube is.

I've used it for years....I've done everything wrong you can in an attempt to recreate even one of the issues that some folks claim to have. I have even put firearms and parts in the freezer over night to see if it slowed the actions. It did not.

I have no interest in promoting or condemning any products. But considering I buy it in bulk, us it on everything and share it with others, I take some interest in the complaints. I have made an honest attempt to recreate the reported issues with no such findings.

I have skipped the prepping process and mixed lubes in the beginning. Initially there was no fl solvent or direction to strip other products. Just use it until it breakers done the other products.

I have inspected clean fl'd weapons and found some dark residue. NOT A STICKY GUNK. My thoughts were " this stuff is still breaking down carbon or perhaps the previous Lube ". I did not go into a panic, I simply wiped it out with a q-tip and moved on. I have also ran dirty fl'd guns long enough to be impressed with the results and the easy of cleaning after they have been treated.

I suspect that there is some combination that does react unfavorably with frog luge. I'm not calling anyone that claims to have had an issue a liar. However I would also suspect that a proper application would have avoided the issue.

If you mix synthetic gear oil with not synthetic it will gum up. But that doesn't make it a bad product. It was used incorrectly. Some coolants don't mix well with tap water. But again. It clearly states to use distilled or ionized water. If you use tape water you will likely have some corrosion issues. Again. Not the products fault if used correctly.

I got an e-mail not long ago that frog Lube has a new product called FL Extreme ( for extreme cold environments ) I believe. Which may indicate that there are in fact some cold weather issues with the product but I have not been able to reproduce.

You dismiss the complaints about fire clean but consider any and all complaints about froglube as fact.

I'm sure there are better cleaner, lubes and protectants than froglube. But it works very well. I use it because it doesn't stink up the house, if I get it on anything, it will not damage it. And clean up after treatment is a snap. Carbon does not harden and it lubes excellently. That sir is a FACT.

For every person with a complaint there are thousands using it without complaint.

I literally have a few years worth of frog luge and with no complaints I have no reason change.

I have nothing against fire clean either. But there are now similar complaint surfacing about it slowing down the actions in cold weather.

Summary: use what you want. If you or anyone else can prove frog Lube ( when used correctly ) gets sticky or gummy Id sure like to know about it.

Follow up question: when I used FL, I did the initial application with the paste, degreased everything very thoroughly, very light coat with heat. Later, I used the liquid for quick relubrication on the range. Have you ever seen an issue using the paste in combination with the liquid?

 

[jwc0305]

Apply it with heat, wait an hour or so, wipe it with a lint free terry cloth, and never look back, it's the bomb!

 

[Hayata]

I'll be very interested to see what happens. Generally speaking, petroleum based products don't get along with bio-based oils. So, I wonder what effect the 3 in 1 oil will have on the mixture. Also, a few guys tried generic "vegetable oil" on their guns, which turned rancid pretty quickly. I'm not sure if what they used was soy or a blend.

I don't know what the 3-in-1 is based off of but no rancidity yet. I wonder if it works like a preservative?

My "canola oil cocktail" has been sitting open in a shot glass in my basement for over a month. It's almost gone. I may have to mix up some more just because. I think it really does a decent job cleaning. Seems to work good in old Mosin bores when left over night.

 

[davans]

Follow up question: when I used FL, I did the initial application with the paste, degreased everything very thoroughly, very light coat with heat. Later, I used the liquid for quick relubrication on the range. Have you ever seen an issue using the paste in combination with the liquid?

I have and use both. I use the paste a lot more. Generally I use a q- tip and paste to clean with. I use a small brush to apply the paste heavily and then set it under my adjustable desk lamp. It gets pretty hot and melts. Sometimes I leave it unassembled and under the lamp for hours. I don't usually get in much of a hurry when I'm cleaning guns. I really don't enjoy it. Wipe them dry add a drop or two and reassemble.

On my rifles I run a snake bore with liquid on it through the barrel while shooting to treat the barrels.

On my AR's its paste to clean and treat and then I pour the liquid to them while shooting. After that it's just a clean up and wipe dry. I'll put a few drops of liquid here and there. But I run them pretty dry once they have been treated. They will sweat once you start shooting.

For the most part it's paste at the house with a few drops of liquid. And liquid at the range if I'm treating barrels. I don't guess I have ever just used one or the other but I prefer the paste.

There is something different about the paste. If I remember correctly they "cook" it a bit. To thicken it up.

I don't think I have ever used just one or the other. But I use a lot more paste.

I'm no chemist by a long shot. But I'd be glad to supply both paste and liquid if someone wants to do some more precise controlled testing. I do have a new XDs that needs cleaning. It has not been fl treated yet. I'm open to suggestions on testing.

 

[mtdawg169]

Am I reading this right? If you apply the liquid, you later wipe it off? Like every time? Have you ever left it wet for an extended period?

 

[davans]

I will run my AR's wet.very wet. A time or two. Just to help with the " treatment" process . Once they have been treated. I wipe everything dry when I reassemble. I don't follow a stricken process.

I don't always clean them up after every trip to the range. I have shot them dirty as hell and sloppy with FL over and over.

They will sweat like crazy to self Lube once treated.

On semi auto pistols I usually wipe clean but go back with a very small amount of paste on the slide and a drop or two of liquid on pins.

I have read where some do not advise treating firing pins on ARS. For fear of gumming up. But I have broken that rule. With no ill effects.

If your asking do I store them wet with liquid. No, other than a drop or two. When I clean them and put them up. They are dry for the most part.

 

[mtdawg169]

I will run my AR's wet.very wet. A time or two. Just to help with the " treatment" process . Once they have been treated. I wipe everything dry when I reassemble. I don't follow a stricken process.

I don't always clean them up after every trip to the range. I have shot them dirty as hell and sloppy with FL over and over.

They will sweat like crazy to self Lube once treated.

On semi auto pistols I usually wipe clean but go back with a very small amount of paste on the slide and a drop or two of liquid on pins.

I have read where some do not advise treating firing pins on ARS. For fear of gumming up. But I have broken that rule. With no ill effects.

If your asking do I store them wet with liquid. No, other than a drop or two. When I clean them and put them up. They are dry for the most part.

This is probably where we differed. I don't clean my guns after every trip. I generally lube them wet, shoot them till they start to dry out or get really filthy, then wet them down again. Over and over. If I start to have issues, I'll clean them. So, it's not uncommon for me to put one away for a few weeks, dripping with oil. My issues with FL manifested in each gun after it had been stored for 2-3 months. Each time, the gun began to short stroke. It looked like there was plenty of lube present, but when I pulled the bcg, it was tacky. As in, my fingers stuck to them and left visible fingerprints imprinted on them. I stripped them clean, applied weaponshield or slip 2000, and they all ran perfectly. At the time, none of them were particularly fouled. So it seems that if you leave excess FL on the gun, it coagulates over time. And I know, the FL rules say "don't overlubricate". But I lost interest because I don't think that should be possible and I don't want a lube that can cause ANY sort of malfunction from using too much or requires extra steps (like wiping away excess) before storage. Much like the application process, that's just way more tedious and temperamental than a good lube should be. For me, the ideal lube is non-toxic, makes cleaning a snap and doesn't require much thought other than apply & shoot.

I suppose if you wanted to try to replicate the issue, you could run an AR really wet, shoot it, then put it away, still wet, for several weeks or 3 months. Then check it periodically to see what happens.