Red dots on pistols

[ridgerunner33]

Sir, I agree for the most part... those that are having a RDO added to a pistol (pick your flavor) may be doing it because it is the cool-guy thing to do. I have noticed (go to any range to see Fudd) and there’s not many folks that can hit a target they are intending to hit at 10-15 yards much less if they can, their grouping is fuk’d....

Those of us that are able to master fundamentals are able to move past the BUIS into an advanced sighting system...

I think all of us take for granted the fundamentals because we’re/ your already good at them. Don’t forget about the novice shooter/ that guy or gal that has a nightstand gun the shot one round out of to familiarize themselves with “recoil”... those that don’t get out but once a year for 20 minutes....

There is a difference...

I digress.....

This thread is about a RDO NEEDED on a self defense gun... is there it needed? That’s the question.

The answer is absolutely not “needed”. Wanted, perfected- maybe but certainly not needed.

Respectfully
Chris


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You said it so much better and clearer than I have,and failed so miserably at earlier.Good points.What I was also seeing in my head,was those at the range,just making noise...rarely seeing anything that could be recognized as a group @7 yards.Those are who will run out to buy the latest and greatest,thinking their game will improve.It may slightly,however you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run etc.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

I had one on my Sig M18, and ended up taking it off and selling it. The reason was that in the end, I don't like the idea of something with batteries on my carry gun. I had the Leupold DPP.. and while it has the "shake to wake", if I were to carry that, it would always be on, and in that state, the battery only lasts a couple weeks or so... so I would be constantly replacing batteries.

I think I might prefer something like the Holosun, which uses a solar panel as the primary source of power, and the battery is more of a backup source...

I did enjoy shooting it, once I got used to it, but at up close self defense ranges, I am not using optics or irons anyway, but rather point shooting.

For longer precision shots, the RDS is a huge advantage over irons, just as they would be on your AR. Can a good shooter engage and get precise hits at 100 yards with irons on their rifle? Sure, but more people can more easily do it with a red dot.

A pistol is rarely used at those extended ranges. Maybe your .44 Mag revolver used for hogs at 40 yards will... I definitely see the benefits, but on an up close self defense pistol for close engagements, I feel like it adds bulk and is just one more thing to fiddle with or have fail when you need it.

I will add a different optic to my M18 in the future as I don't carry that often, that spends more time in the night stand...

 

[Dav]

Sir, I agree for the most part... those that are having a RDO added to a pistol (pick your flavor) may be doing it because it is the cool-guy thing to do. I have noticed (go to any range to see Fudd) and there’s not many folks that can hit a target they are intending to hit at 10-15 yards much less if they can, their grouping is fuk’d....

Those of us that are able to master fundamentals are able to move past the BUIS into an advanced sighting system...

I think all of us take for granted the fundamentals because we’re/ your already good at them. Don’t forget about the novice shooter/ that guy or gal that has a nightstand gun the shot one round out of to familiarize themselves with “recoil”... those that don’t get out but once a year for 20 minutes....

There is a difference...

I digress.....

This thread is about a RDO NEEDED on a self defense gun... is there it needed? That’s the question.

The answer is absolutely not “needed”. Wanted, perfected- maybe but certainly not needed.

Respectfully
Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I rebuttal with this those with poor eyesight may actually need a red dot sight I have poor vision on my right eye Im left eye dominant so its not a big deal for me I just hold the RMR in front of that eye, but needed is subjective, I personally dont need it, but damn if I wont pick that over irons eveyday of the week, but yes i agree some people who dont shoot often should learn the fundamental of irons, would you rather have the advantage of a red dot or not is my main argument those who arent proficient with a red dot dont train, dont shoot enough, and lack the knowledge to make a proper decision on if its even a good choice for them they use it a few time, say its slower than irons, or the dot isnt a perfect dot ( astigmatism) and go back to irons, same guys knock on people for using lasers, older seniors or people who dont shoot alot benefit from a laser, or red dot over trying to "masters" irons

 

[bulletslinger101]

I had one on my Sig M18, and ended up taking it off and selling it. The reason was that in the end, I don't like the idea of something with batteries on my carry gun. I had the Leupold DPP.. and while it has the "shake to wake", if I were to carry that, it would always be on, and in that state, the battery only lasts a couple weeks or so... so I would be constantly replacing batteries.

I think I might prefer something like the Holosun, which uses a solar panel as the primary source of power, and the battery is more of a backup source...

I did enjoy shooting it, once I got used to it, but at up close self defense ranges, I am not using optics or irons anyway, but rather point shooting.

For longer precision shots, the RDS is a huge advantage over irons, just as they would be on your AR. Can a good shooter engage and get precise hits at 100 yards with irons on their rifle? Sure, but more people can more easily do it with a red dot.

A pistol is rarely used at those extended ranges. Maybe your .44 Mag revolver used for hogs at 40 yards will... I definitely see the benefits, but on an up close self defense pistol for close engagements, I feel like it adds bulk and is just one more thing to fiddle with or have fail when you need it.

I will add a different optic to my M18 in the future as I don't carry that often, that spends more time in the night stand...

“ up close self defense ranges, I am not using optics or irons anyway, but rather point shooting.”

Great note! It’s often missed when or if folks are engaged or engaging most of the time they are point shooting until they can get on sights.


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[bulletslinger101]

I rebuttal with this those with poor eyesight may actually need a red dot sight I have poor vision on my right eye Im left eye dominant so its not a big deal for me I just hold the RMR in front of that eye, but needed is subjective, I personally dont need it, but damn if I wont pick that over irons eveyday of the week, but yes i agree some people who dont shoot often should learn the fundamental of irons, would you rather have the advantage of a red dot or not is my main argument those who arent proficient with a red dot dont train, dont shoot enough, and lack the knowledge to make a proper decision on if its even a good choice for them they use it a few time, say its slower than irons, or the dot isnt a perfect dot ( astigmatism) and go back to irons, same guys knock on people for using lasers, older seniors or people who dont shoot alot benefit from a laser, or red dot over trying to "masters" irons

Here in this thread we are discussing the NEED of an RDO on a self defense gun... not preference... is there a need..

Need is not subjective in this case. In order to hit a target consistently with a firearm you have to have a set of sights on that firearm. Especially in a self-defense firearm you need to have good reliable iron sights. Do not forget you’re responsible for everything that comes out of that firearm when you squeeze the trigger.

If an engagement happens and you’re around impacts an unintended person you’re held liable for it and could be manslaughter one or two. Without iron sights you have a greater chance of not hitting the target you’re intending to hit. In this case back up iron sights are a must and you must have them and be proficient with them. This is not subjective this is fact.

Subjective is what type of red dot sight do you use, what type of back up iron sights do you use, comfort..

These are all subjective...

Sites on a firearm is not an option. And engaging anything without sights on a firearm is absolutely irresponsible of the person operating that firearm/owner!


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[Dav]

You said it so much better and clearer than I have,and failed so miserably at earlier.Good points.What I was also seeing in my head,was those at the range,just making noise...rarely seeing anything that could be recognized as a group @7 yards.Those are who will run out to buy the latest and greatest,thinking their game will improve.It may slightly,however you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run etc.

Let me put it another way if your spouse, mom, sister, grandma, was in a situation that they needed to use a handgun would you rather them have a RDO or irons what woukd be easier, more effective, with little to no shooting experience

A have to worey about sight alignment, focusing on front sights, and all that
Or
B just point the red dot on the target and press the trigger

 

[Dav]

Here in this thread we are discussing the NEED of an RDO on a self defense gun... not preference... is there a need..

Need is not subjective in this case. In order to hit a target consistently with a firearm you have to have a set of sights on that firearm. Especially in a self-defense firearm you need to have good reliable iron sights. Do not forget you’re responsible for everything that comes out of that firearm when you squeeze the trigger.

If an engagement happens and you’re around impacts an unintended person you’re held liable for it and could be manslaughter one or two. Without iron sights you have a greater chance of not hitting the target you’re intending to hit. In this case back up iron sights are a must and you must have them and be proficient with them. This is not subjective this is fact.

Subjective is what type of red dot sight do you use, what type of back up iron sights do you use, comfort..

These are all subjective...

Sites on a firearm is not an option. And engaging anything without sights on a firearm is absolutely irresponsible of the person operating that firearm/owner!


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Im not arguing having a need for a sighting system, im debating that a rdo is sometimes needed and will always be much easier to use over irons

 

[ridgerunner33]

Neither until they can shoot a handgun reasonably well.....they know where the 20 guage is.

 

[bulletslinger101]

Let me put it another way if your spouse, mom, sister, grandma, was in a situation that they needed to use a handgun would you rather them have a RDO or irons what woukd be easier, more effective, with little to no shooting experience

A have to worey about sight alignment, focusing on front sights, and all that
Or
B just point the red dot on the target and press the trigger

Red dots are a whole lot harder to master than iron sites are. When you’re talking about somebody that does not use a pistol and it’s for breaking purpose is for self-defense, most personnel pick it up in point shoot. I’ve seen a lot and I’ve instructed a lot of personnel with red dot optic’s that have no idea how do use them the stats why they’re coming to a class in order to learn how to use them.

Without the proper fundamentals and repetition having a red dot optic on a firearm is absolutely not helpful until you learn how to apply everything with that optic. You don’t just pick up a firearm put the Dot on the target and squeeze the trigger like a lot of folks think. Presentation presentation presentation presentation, tons of repetition and familiarization is how you get used to and use a red dot optic.

It takes some getting used to..

Most people can use iron sights and can hit at least a man-size target somewhere in the body region. Which in a self-defense situation your probability of incapacitation greatly increases as the perpetrator may not be able to engage after a body shot. Once that body shot is completed and your sites are trained on that Purp you are able to conduct a threat assessment to ensure that he is not gonna be able to harm you and then call 911 or if he’s still a combatant you’re able to finish what you’re doing

OK fellas and Fellers... I’m tapping out...

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[ridgerunner33]

Im not arguing having a need for a sighting system, im debating that a rdo is sometimes needed and will always be much easier to use over irons

I agree it is easier to use,it felt like some(not you) were advocating that iron sights had gone the way of the do-do bird since MRDS are now on the scene...really the only reason I spoke up.I love em...I need um...I want more of them...but not as a replacement,only to compliment the ever evolving shooting platform