The Fear Of Carrying Cocked And Locked

[insulinboy]

The fear is in your head. Probably an unwarranted fear based on the likelihood of having an accident.

If you're not comfortable, don't do it. If you can train yourself to be comfortable give it a try.

I always carry condition 1 when I carry my compact 1911. It has two safeties but something could still happen I guess.

The odds of having an accident are probably slim to none.

This, if you think about it, with a round in the chamber your striker fired gun is cocked and locked the same as a 1911 condition 1. With a new 1911, there are 3 safeties that must all fail at the same time for the gun to fire. There is the grip safety that the hammer cant drop without you griping the weapon properly, the slide safety that also blocks the hammer from dropping, and a trigger safety that won't let the firing pin move unless the trigger is pulled. And most 1911's have a very crisp no frills trigger, but the trigger pull is still in the same range weight wise that a good striker fired gun is

 

[insulinboy]

Well I guess I'm in the minority. I pocket carry either a P238 or P938, both in condition 3 (no round in chamber). Personally, not being in LE or security, the need for safety out weights the need to get the weapon into action fast. Now, having said this. I would have no reservations carrying a full size 1911 in a proper holster in condition 1.

It was once explained to me and it makes a lot of sense that most failures happen during feeding. Generally if a round is in the chamber the gun will go off, its getting the round in the chamber that can be an issue especially in a high stress situation when you or your families life is on the line. you might not get the slide back all the way and load a round, it might jam because of some pocket lint ect. I'd find a good pocket holster for the gun and carry with one in the chamber if you are going to carry in your pocket. There are also some very nice IWB holsters for those little guns. I agree for the need for safety, but if you draw and the gun doesn't function properly or you fumble when trying to rack the slide it could end much worse for you than if you didn't have the gun at all

Of course this is just my personal opinion and its not like I haven't been wrong before

 

[norbel718]

It was once explained to me and it makes a lot of sense that most failures happen during feeding. Generally if a round is in the chamber the gun will go off, its getting the round in the chamber that can be an issue especially in a high stress situation when you or your families life is on the line. you might not get the slide back all the way and load a round, it might jam because of some pocket lint ect. I'd find a good pocket holster for the gun and carry with one in the chamber if you are going to carry in your pocket. There are also some very nice IWB holsters for those little guns. I agree for the need for safety, but if you draw and the gun doesn't function properly or you fumble when trying to rack the slide it could end much worse for you than if you didn't have the gun at all

Of course this is just my personal opinion and its not like I haven't been wrong before

The above situation actually happened about 10 years ago...went to work midtown ATL earlier than usual (6am) wanted to save money so I parked on the street. As soon as i turn the car off -three homeboys are jogging towards my car across a vacant lot. I reach into the glove box, pull out the auto loader, rack the slide - get a FTF - I freak. The homeboys run right past my car. Probably hotel workers hustling to work. I sat in the car a full 10 minutes composing myself.

 

[Patronus]

2 words.... Pocket Holster.

if the trigger is covered who cares if it's cocked and locked or striker fired or just plain old double action?

Look into a Mic Holster for maximum protection with minimum bulk.

 

[thesammythecurse]

I've carried a p238 in my pocket over a year, desantis pocket,holster, cocked and locked. Never had an issue. I always feel for the safety through out the day, and I have never found it disengaged. It's always on safe.

They have a very positive click/feel to disengage the safety. To the guy who "heard from a friend who knows a guy," just stop talking.

 

[protective measures]

Well I guess I'm in the minority. I pocket carry either a P238 or P938, both in condition 3 (no round in chamber). Personally, not being in LE or security, the need for safety out weights the need to get the weapon into action fast. Now, having said this. I would have no reservations carrying a full size 1911 in a proper holster in condition 1.

Being L.E. or Security has nothing to do with it.
If you intend the gun to be used for self-defense as a civilian IF you have to use it there is a high likelihood it will be in response to a surprise attack at fairly close quarters initiated aggressively by someone else.
Every Instructor / School that I've ever attended or heard of are all 100% agreed on this topic.
There are very few situations (usually child-related, novice shooter, or other extenuating circumstances) where condition 3 is advisable & then usually only until the shooter gains more experience or develops a better method of storing the gun.

In Force on Force training exercises that are NOT life/ death but do create mental/ physical stress it has been demonstrated over & over again that the overwhelming majority of people will not have the presence of mind or the physical ability (or the necessary use of both hands) to perform a slide rack. In my considerable experience conducting these exercises or participating in them most people. regardless of skill level, do not get the gun chambered much less a single shot off because there just isn't enough time & their fine motor skills suck.

Small guns are hard enough to manipulate quickly & effectively under ideal conditions much less in a life or death situation where your stress meter will be pegged out since you've never trained for it like 95% of the people who carry a gun.

IF you are going to carry condition 3 or use a very small gun w/ such condensed operational controls including a manual safety, for your own sake get some professional instruction somewhere... or at LEAST practice, practice, practice drawing & chambering the round or disengaging the safety until it becomes instinctive every time you shoot/ handle the gun even if its dryfire only.

 

[protective measures]

After watching dozens of shooters bring out their little Colt Mustangs, Sig 238's, etc. & shoot them in classes it has further reinforced my belief that the average shooter is better off w/ a gun like a revolver or DAO/ striker fired gun i.e. Ruger LCP, Glock 42, Shield, etc. that has a much simpler manner of operation.... mainly because most people will not invest the time necessary to become so proficient that they can instinctively & consistently hit that safety.

If I had a quarter for every time I heard a "Plasti-phobe", 1911 aficionado present his gun during a range drill, press the trigger w/o result (no bang) & mutter under their breath, "Oops...forgot the safety".
My thought is always !
If a simple low stress drill makes you forget to disengage the safety what do you think will happen in a fight for your life?

I know a few dedicated 1911 shooters that are at a much higher level of proficiency. Good for them... they get to use the "world's greatest trigger" though there are some DAO's starting to getting close. As long as (and if) the gun is reliable & the shooter competent they can be a formidable combination.
They are always very dedicated shooters who spend a lot of time TRAINING with their guns(s).

If I were going to run a 1911 style gun for my primary S.D., I would do so at the exclusion of anything else.

A sure path to disaster in a defensive situation are the "serial swappers" who go back & forth between guns w/ radically different operational systems.

Beware the man (who trains) with one gun, he probably knows how to use it

 

[norbel718]

After watching dozens of shooters bring out their little Colt Mustangs, Sig 238's, etc. & shoot them in classes it has further reinforced my belief that the average shooter is better off w/ a gun like a revolver or DAO/ striker fired gun i.e. Ruger LCP, Glock 42, Shield, etc. that has a much simpler manner of operation.... mainly because most people will not invest the time necessary to become so proficient that they can instinctively & consistently hit that safety.

If I had a quarter for every time I heard a "Plasti-phobe", 1911 aficionado present his gun during a range drill, press the trigger w/o result (no bang) & mutter under their breath, "Oops...forgot the safety".
My thought is always !
If a simple low stress drill makes you forget to disengage the safety what do you think will happen in a fight for your life?

I know a few dedicated 1911 shooters that are at a much higher level of proficiency. Good for them... they get to use the "world's greatest trigger" though there are some DAO's starting to getting close. As long as (and if) the gun is reliable & the shooter competent they can be a formidable combination.
They are always very dedicated shooters who spend a lot of time TRAINING with their guns(s).

If I were going to run a 1911 style gun for my primary S.D., I would do so at the exclusion of anything else.

A sure path to disaster in a defensive situation are the "serial swappers" who go back & forth between guns w/ radically different operational systems.

Beware the man (who trains) with one gun, he probably knows how to use it

Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly explain your position and it seem you are well versed (an expert) in this field; therefore, I being a novice, cannot debate
your position.

However, there are millions of citizens (novice gun owners) who own & safely handle fire arms who choose not to carry in the condition 1 manor.

Thanks, again. I found your comments to be informative.

 

[protective measures]

Thank you for taking the time to thoroughly explain your position and it seem you are well versed (an expert) in this field; therefore, I being a novice, cannot debate
your position.

However, there are millions of citizens (novice gun owners) who own & safely handle fire arms who choose not to carry in the condition 1 manor.

Thanks, again. I found your comments to be informative.

Thanks for your kind disposition.
My intent was not at all to criticize you but just to explain the reasons why the training community strongly discourages that mode of carry.

One of the main reasons the guns equipped with passive safeties as well as revolvers with a simple "manual of arms" are most suitable for newer shooters is si that there is less that they have to remember to do to "make it work"... especially under stress. Learn the 4 Cardinal safety rules & off they go....

I always strongly encourage getting quality training somewhere to overcome that phobia (along with getting a snug fitting holster that covers the trigger).

Many people start my classes carrying cond. 3 & I always tell them that at the end of the day YOU are responsible for being safe in the use of your gun so if you don't trust yourself to carry it w/ a round in the chamber, then don't.
Safety comes first.

Just make sure that you understand that you are at a huge disadvantage if you ever need it im a hurry.
The best ( & a distinct possibility) thing that could happen is that you pull it out & the attacker(s) see it & run off.
One of the worst is that when you pull it out & it goes "click" the attacker(s) beat, stab, shoot you to death because you made them fear for their life.

 

[elmosdad]

I have carried a 1911 cocked and locked for about 50 years,I really like the look on peoples faces when they see it.The first thing most say is Your gun is loaded........yep it shore is........